Author Topic: (NGC) Starting problems with a Honda four stroke mini tiller (Read 8598 times)

Gliderjohn · « **on:** May 25, 2015, 12:42:27 PM »

The last time I used my tiller which has been very reliable it just stopped cold on me after about 30-40 minutes of perfect running. No sputter, missing, etc. just stopped like one had hit the kill switch. Checked the spark plug and it appears to have a nice strong blue spark. It has a clear fuel hose and priming bulb. Have fuel in both. What few wires it has all seem connected and in good shape. When I try to start it not a thing happens. Has compression. Any thoughts?
GliderJohn

Vagrant · « **Reply #1 on:** May 25, 2015, 12:46:51 PM »

for kicks replace the plug. an 1150 Guzzi plug will work. BPR7ES same thing happened to my pressure washer with a Honda and that was it.

Lannis · « **Reply #2 on:** May 25, 2015, 12:49:53 PM »

Quote from: Vagrant on May 25, 2015, 12:46:51 PM

for kicks replace the plug. an 1150 Guzzi plug will work. BPR7ES same thing happened to my pressure washer with a Honda and that was it.

Last two small equipment failures I had (Subaru-engined Merry-Tiller and Husqvarna string trimmer) were solved by solvent-cleaning and wire-brushing the spark plug. I SWORE it was a fuel problem, and it wasn't.

Lannis

LaMojo · « **Reply #3 on:** May 25, 2015, 01:34:19 PM »

Put a cap full (off a quart bottle of oil) gas through the sparkplug hole and install plug. See if it starts. If it runs for an instant then dies you know it's fuel related. May have some trash in the main jet or float valve inlet.

80CX100 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 25, 2015, 02:33:38 PM »

All of my small engine machinery with plastic gas tanks, react badly with this new gasoiline(ethanol mix and whatever) seems to be a reaction with the plastic,, they varnish and gunk up the carbs really fast,,, usually a stuck float valve or clogged jets,,, running them dry before putting them away and sea foam, really works for me

rodekyll · « **Reply #5 on:** May 25, 2015, 03:55:22 PM »

I had that happen the first run of my pressure washer this spring. Pulled the carb and it was rotten. I mean so rotten that the flange tabs were soft and bendable. It was so rotten that when I tapped the float it shattered. I got an offshore clone carb from ebay for $25.90, shipped. As soon as I can get someone to pull the starter rope while I hold their beer we'll see if it solves my problem.

Muzz · « **Reply #6 on:** May 26, 2015, 02:29:23 AM »

A lot of Honda stationary engines have a low oil switch fitted. Cuts the motor if the oil level drops below a certain point.

Gliderjohn · « **Reply #7 on:** May 26, 2015, 06:42:01 AM »

Going to town today to and will get a new plug and try that. Has oil in it. As I stated it just stopped, no sputter, nothing. Thanks to all for the response.
GliderJohn

lucian · « **Reply #8 on:** May 26, 2015, 12:41:57 PM »

If your getting a good blue spark no need to replace the plug, has to be fuel. Try giving her a shot of fuel manually via the carb air intake or in the plug hole as suggested, if it fires briefly you have found the problem. My guess is ethanol goop in the float bowl, needle valve.

Lannis · « **Reply #9 on:** May 26, 2015, 03:53:15 PM »

Quote from: lucian on May 26, 2015, 12:41:57 PM

If your getting a good blue spark no need to replace the plug, has to be fuel.

I've spent many an hour disproving the universality of that sentiment ... hours I wish I had back.

Sometimes a spark plug will spark out in the open air but will be intermittent or worse under compression .....

Spark plugs look "Tough" and are hard to break with a hammer ... but if you gas-foul one, it may never work again even if you clean it so it "looks" like new ... so a new one is a cheap diagnostic tool.

Lannis

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #10 on:** May 26, 2015, 04:23:53 PM »

Quote from: Lannis on May 26, 2015, 03:53:15 PM

I've spent many an hour disproving the universality of that sentiment ... hours I wish I had back.

Sometimes a spark plug will spark out in the open air but will be intermittent or worse under compression .....

Spark plugs look "Tough" and are hard to break with a hammer ... but if you gas-foul one, it may never work again even if you clean it so it "looks" like new ... so a new one is a cheap diagnostic tool.

Lannis

This. I have a spark plug tester that puts them under pressure while firing. Many are fine up to about 80 psi, and fail completely at 100 psi. I've seen new out of the box plugs fail the tester.. happened to be Champion.. ~; but plugs can drive you crazy. It's my first thing to look at. And.. as the big guy sez.. if it's truly fouled, it'll never be the same.

lucian · « **Reply #11 on:** May 26, 2015, 05:10:21 PM »

Certainly can't hurt to rule out the plug, fouled a few over the years in 2 strokes, but never had one go bad in a 4 stroke for some reason. I never knew they could be pressure sensitive, always thought they worked or they didn't. Hope you get to the bottom of it, it's certainly growing weather now. dave

Bob Wegman · « **Reply #12 on:** May 26, 2015, 07:46:21 PM »

Is your air filter plugged?

rbond · « **Reply #13 on:** May 29, 2015, 04:02:08 PM »

Had a pressure washer that would not start. Short version - put in a non-resistor plug, fired right up. Ran it for a few seconds, shut it down, replaced OEM resistor plug, started right up and ran fine. Turns out the resistor in the cap was bad. Changed to a non-resistor cap and problem solved.

56Pan · « **Reply #14 on:** May 29, 2015, 09:11:28 PM »

Quote from: Chuck in Indiana on May 26, 2015, 04:23:53 PM

This. I have a spark plug tester that puts them under pressure while firing. Many are fine up to about 80 psi, and fail completely at 100 psi. I've seen new out of the box plugs fail the tester.. happened to be Champion.. ~; but plugs can drive you crazy. It's my first thing to look at. And.. as the big guy sez.. if it's truly fouled, it'll never be the same.

Agreed on the Champion plugs. I had two new ones out of the box that fired up inside through the porcelain insulator. Both of them, as hard as I looked, I could find no crack in the porcelain. I don't use Champions anymore.

mgfan · « **Reply #15 on:** May 29, 2015, 10:56:55 PM »

Same here. Champions make good fishing weights! :BEER:

Sasquatch Jim · « **Reply #16 on:** May 30, 2015, 10:51:28 AM »

Have you tried push starting it?

Gliderjohn · « **Reply #17 on:** May 31, 2015, 07:00:18 PM »

Tried a new NKG plug, no start. Tried fuel in the spark plug hole, no start or fart. Took it to the local repair shop. It is suppose to be ready tomorrow.
GliderJohn

Sheepdog · « **Reply #18 on:** June 02, 2015, 04:38:36 AM »

Clean the float bowl and check for intake leaks. These are the most common solutions when my Honda-powered equipment fails...

LaMojo · « **Reply #19 on:** June 02, 2015, 08:54:16 AM »

Dirt or mud daubers can stop up mufflers or air filter housings causing no start problems.

Gliderjohn · « **Reply #20 on:** June 02, 2015, 09:40:57 AM »

I checked and cleaned the airlifted and check the muffler. The repair place lied about the tiller being ready yesterday. Last estimate is "a few more days." So still don't yet know the problem.
GliderJohn

blackcat · « **Reply #21 on:** June 02, 2015, 10:32:19 AM »

Quote from: gliderjohn on June 02, 2015, 09:40:57 AM

The repair place lied....

Sounds familiar.

I was burned by one years ago and decided to never go back to any of them as I'd rather buy new parts as a guess. It has worked for me but if it is a trusted establishment, that is a different story. Good luck.

Gliderjohn · « **Reply #22 on:** June 09, 2015, 01:04:35 PM »

Well...it turned out the motor is shot, no significant compression. Shop said cheaper to replace than overhaul and they do not sell new stuff so I have no reason to believe otherwise. Seemed strange to me that it seemed to be running well to the point it stopped. Had it for almost 10 years and it's early life was not easy while we were establishing a garden. Guess will get another. They are available at the Lowes in Wichita. Cost about a third more now than 10 years ago.
GliderJohn

rodekyll · « **Reply #23 on:** June 09, 2015, 01:34:23 PM »

Thanks for the rest of the story. :)

The rest of my story re: the pressure washer is that the knockoff carb works well. For $25 I have a working machine again. Oh -- now that it's working, I see the brass wand valve has split. It puts as much water up my sleeve as on the target.

LaMojo · « **Reply #24 on:** June 10, 2015, 09:36:06 AM »

Unless the engine has been ran without oil, I doubt that the engine is "shot". It's more probable that the valve head has worn into the seat in the block or head to the point that cam is keeping the valve partially open. Common issue on small engines. Easy to fix by grinding the valve stem to proper valve lash clearance. Small engines are easy to work on and you can do this yourself or take the valves to a shop that can grind and polish the ends.
It MAY be that one of the valve stems have become partially stuck in its guide and just needs some lubricant so that it can resume its normal position.. Carbon can also cause the valve to stick partially open.

Muzz · « **Reply #25 on:** June 10, 2015, 11:35:19 PM »

Quote from: LaMojo on June 10, 2015, 09:36:06 AM

Unless the engine has been ran without oil, I doubt that the engine is "shot". It's more probable that the valve head has worn into the seat in the block or head to the point that cam is keeping the valve partially open. Common issue on small engines. Easy to fix by grinding the valve stem to proper valve lash clearance. Small engines are easy to work on and you can do this yourself or take the valves to a shop that can grind and polish the ends.
It MAY be that one of the valve stems have become partially stuck in its guide and just needs some lubricant so that it can resume its normal position.. Carbon can also cause the valve to stick partially open.

I think the Honda OHV actually has adjusters, unlike the B&S sidevalves.

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Author Topic: (NGC) Starting problems with a Honda four stroke mini tiller (Read 8598 times)

LaMojo

56Pan

LaMojo

LaMojo