Self-Driving cars / autos merged threadfest

[Lannis]

If motorcycling on the street is a sport then so is driving a bus. And if you feel it's a sport then you have the wrong attitude towards it. Offroad, I agree, but not on the street.

Why would you compare it to driving a bus rather than flying a small airplane, for example, or fishing in the Gulf Stream, or kayaking down a creek?   Still rules to be followed, still other people to watch out for, but it's FUN and way different than just driving a bus .... ?

You don't have to act like the arsewipe that you often see on a "sport" bike to be engaging in a "sport" ... ?

Lannis

[Kev m]

Whippersnappers don't have the ca$h it takes to buy a new bike today. Bikes are harder to workon and you need the diagnostic tools to service them proerly. And kids don't work on thing mechanical because they can't work on cars like we used to.
Yeah, they can chip their car's ECU but anything more it takes $. And the car must still pass emissions.

And motorcycling on the street is not a sport.

I dunno.

There's a still a huge car culture and you certainly CAN tune whatever you want. I see people taking Nissan Jukes and going from 188 crank hp to 250 wheel hp. Yeah, that takes money, but once kids are done with school and working, some of them have it and spend it on their cars.

I remember my SIL telling me about Camp LeJune and all the young marines running around blowing their entire pay on their rides.

I'm sure there are still some HS kids taking shop and scraping pennies together to tune their cars (or buy really expensive stereos and rims).

[Kev m]

In high school, again back in the '70s, most students who didn't ride the bus rode motorcycles.  They out-numbered cars by a large margin.  Except for the surfer dudes in their Toyota pickups or Datsun 510s with boards lashed on.

Maybe it was Long Island, or maybe it was just that by the 80's that didn't happen. I don't recall seeing a single motorcycle in the parking lot of my high school. Plenty of cars, but no bikes.

[Guzzistajohn]

Geeze, some of you guys can turn anything into an argument!

Now, back to the subject, It's not "cool" to be a gearhead anymore, look around, kids would rather keep their face stuck in a cell phone or some other e-lectronic gadget.

Staying locked up in your parents home playing video games with some little zit faced peckerhead on the other side of the country is more comfortable and entertaining. Besides, it's not easy throwing a leg over a motorbike with your pants sagging down past your butt cheeks!

[segesta]

Motorcycles, like electric guitars, are now toys only for old people. I was at a recent charity ride, 300 or so bikes, 95% Harleys, everyone over 45.

Even a comical tricked-out electric blue Hayabusa squidsicle, with chrome and extended swingarm, was ridden by some 50 something Polish dude.

[rboe]

Times change, things that were cool aren't any more. Things we that weren't even invented when we were younger are the cool thing now. So, I guess I don't see the big deal.

If we die and motorcycles go away it won't matter. We're dead. 

But we're around now, enjoying (or looking to find that ride we want to enjoy) our bike(s). If the kids have something else in mind who are we to tell them different? As long as we have choices (in our rides, and if we want to or not) we're good. So I just don't see a problem.

[tonyduc]

Some younger riders here (upstate NY) are also making cafe racers out of bikes like old Honda's. Guess it reflects that they are budget conscious (and maybe can't get a loan for a new bike), but at least the ones that are doing this must be mechanically inclined and not video game zombies !

[Testarossa]

If we die and motorcycles go away it won't matter. We're dead.

I like this. It puts things in perspective (mortality usually does). Motorcycling is fun, it keeps me feeling vital and young, but at the same time I feel no need for more horsepower than I can have with any 70's era bike -- that is, enough to kill me or get me arrested. I no longer race but I do like a brisk ride at reasonable angles.

My interest in seeing a healthy motorcycle industry is in seeing tires and parts available easily and at reasonable cost. If that means the industry needs to build newer, faster bikes with interesting technology, great. Adrenaline junkies will always want that stuff, and my modest needs can draft behind that market.

Kudos to Harley, a company that learned to build a whole culture around its products. It's not my culture, but it's a brilliant phenomenon.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Motorcycling not a sport? Lemme show you some canyon/mountain roads in California.
True, it's not a sport if all you do is drone down the interstate. 

[Lannis]

 If the kids have something else in mind who are we to tell them different? As long as we have choices (in our rides, and if we want to or not) we're good. So I just don't see a problem.

We're NOT "telling them different".   They can all do what they want to do.   No laws are being passed here, not even any sticks being shaken at the kids and squids where they can see them.

And there ISN'T a problem.   Did someone indicate there's a "problem"?

We're just "DISCUSSING" it.   It's why we're all here.

Lannis

[davedel44]

Jim , I believe motorbikes are more accepted today than in the 1960s when most of us started riding .

  Dusty

Man, I wasn't even born in the 60's.

Dave
Galveston

[oldbike54]

Man, I wasn't even born in the 60's.

Dave
Galveston

  Keep right on telling your self that Dave 

  Dusty

[Tobit]

Motorcycles, like electric guitars, are now toys only for old people.

I go back and forth between passions.  The LeMans and riding, then these.  57 years young and still rockin'.

[canuck750]

Bike sales peaked here a couple years ago as the oil boom reached its limit, since then sales are reportedly way down, as much as 40%. All the kids in the oil patch seem to want a Harley or they go for the big side by side 4X4 or quad with a healthy contingent of motocross sales as well. The local Guzzi dealership seems to be doing quite well and has a large stock (for here) of bikes. Cruisers seem to outnumber sport bikes by a wide margin but most are ridden by the +40 group.

I attended this years Distinguished Gentleman's Ride and of the 50 riders at least 2/3 were 30 something or younger. The rat bike, café racer was well represented and some of the builds were pretty darn good. I think there remains an interest to 'build' something, ride it and show it off. I think getting young(er) folks interested in bikes and wrenching is great, no matter what the particular make or style of bike.

[MGPilot]

... I think there remains an interest to 'build' something, ride it and show it off. I think getting young(er) folks interested in bikes and wrenching is great, no matter what the particular make or style of bike.

I think that's consistent with any of us who've lent an electronic device to a Yute--and then had to take three days to undo all the personalization changes they made to your phone/tablet/computer.

Same issue is affecting the private aircraft industry. The pilot population is graying. How do you engage younger folks to jump through the hoops to get a proper license?  Problem is, airports used to be open. Kids could wash planes in exchange for rides/lessons. It was a community and lots of airplanes were relatively cheap. Now more regulated, expensive and hidden behind razor wire. Not so good.

My son is a musician in his early 30's and gets on an occasional rant about the "Karate Kid" effect. Where a kid with minimal training, no competitive experience (in effect, without earning something or "paying dues") can waltz in and beat a more seasoned champion. He felt it set the stage for a lot of kids who would quit if they couldn't instantly be successful at something.

That said, I think it's harder for kids to find mentors these days.

[LongRanger]

I'd wager many of us suburban types started riding minibikes and dirt bikes as kids on abandoned lots and nearby trails. In many areas, those places have been paved over and are no longer available.

[Two Checks]

Why did I pick a bus? Because I didn't pick a truck.
A bus and a m/c are motor vehicles. Bothe driven on the street. If you think driving a m/c is a sport you are driving at the wrong venue. Driving a m/c on the street carries with it certain responsibilities. Just like that bus. If driving is agame to you take it off the street before you kill yourself or someone else.

[charlie b]

I have to disagree with the observations of the past.  Maybe in rural communities youngsters were more 'into' cars, but, not in the city I was in.

Yep, I was a gear head, and there were a bunch others.  But that meant about 100 in a HS of over 4000 students.  Most could not care less what kind of car they had as long as it got them from a to b.  That was late 60's.  Even when in college the great majority just wanted transportion.  Type didn't matter as long as it ran.  Vans were popular for a number of reasons, but, condition was anything but great.

Move forward to today.  There is still just a small percentage of 'gear heads'.  Maybe a little less, but, they are still out there.  And the young ones I have met started their interest in mechanical stuff from video games.  They wanted to move from the fantasy world to the real world.

Motorcycles?  I hear just as many 'crash' stories now as I did as a kid.  Three of my friends won't ride anymore cause they were in serious accidents less than 10 years ago.

Job categories?  Computers?  YES!  Look at what you need to do to service a modern car or bike.  And, yes, there are fewer old style mecahnics out there because there are fewer cars/motorcycles that they can work on.  Mechanical reliability is higher, fewer periodic service items (except for valve adjustments on a bunch of motorcycles).  It makes sense that kids want to work with computers.

[oldbike54]

Why did I pick a bus? Because I didn't pick a truck.
A bus and a m/c are motor vehicles. Bothe driven on the street. If you think driving a m/c is a sport you are driving at the wrong venue. Driving a m/c on the street carries with it certain responsibilities. Just like that bus. If driving is agame to you take it off the street before you kill yourself or someone else.

 Man I dunno , have been treating motorcycling as a sport for 47 years now and haven't caused any living creature direct harm , well except for some bugs  Seriously , if you believe cars and motorcycles to be the same you are missing out on the point of riding motorcycles . One drives a car , one "rides" a motorcycle .


                                                           Plato said the purpose of life is not to speed it up

                                                              Plato never owned a vehicle that would lean

  Dusty

[pikipiki]

Whippersnappers don't have the ca$h it takes to buy a new bike today. Bikes are harder to workon and you need the diagnostic tools to service ....

And motorcycling on the street is not a sport.

Seems that whippersnappers buy $200 mini motos the days (and yes that the new price) ride them on the roads and over parkland, no helmet just ISIS style head scarf. The sport begins when someone calls the cops. Sooner or later the bikes get confiscated and it's all quite till the end of the month when they buy another mini Moto. It does seem to be a sport and the kids don't get too upset getting their bikes crushed - these crappy little things seem to wear out engines in the couple of hundred miles and new bikes are more readily available than parts.....

[Rough Edge racing]

I'd wager many of us suburban types started riding minibikes and dirt bikes as kids on abandoned lots and nearby trails. In many areas, those places have been paved over and are no longer available.

 I grew up in a city and as I mentioned before have never ridden a mini bike or off road bike other than maybe 15 minutes total time to this day.

  Bikes were fast flashy and loud...  Young men like fast flashy and loud. And the girls were attracted to leather wearing hoodlums.. it was that simple. When the Honda 750 came out many riders couldn't get one fast enough... Me ,like some others. though  this is the end, self starting machines needing little maintenance... so anyone can ride a bike...
 

[Penderic]

Motorcycles are not novel anymore. Its more of a social accessory now.

The Segway was supposed to the next big thing to change personal transportation.

It was novel and a bit dangerous.


And a bit limited in other markets.

[Two Checks]

If you aren't driving a m/c you are only along for the ride. You aren't in control.

Gee, whooda thunk participating in a sport required license and insurance?

[kirb]

Younger riders where I am at are into older hipster rides (honda, yamaha, suzuki) that are cheap, lots of modern sport bikes, and small displacement. Scooters seem to have taken a large chunk of riders looking for cheap transpo. Touring seems to have dropped in that segment for a lot of the rides they buy. Touring doesn't seem to be as popular with anyone under 30 as it was when I was that age.

ADV bikes replaced sport touring for me. I am seeing a lot of that in the middle age range of riders. Bikes that are more utilitarian and cross over a wider range of use.

Older riders seem to gravitate to touring rigs...wings, BMW LT, Electras... Not always the case, but the spread of people around here seem to lean that way.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Why did I pick a bus? Because I didn't pick a truck.
A bus and a m/c are motor vehicles. Bothe driven on the street. If you think driving a m/c is a sport you are driving at the wrong venue. Driving a m/c on the street carries with it certain responsibilities. Just like that bus. If driving is agame to you take it off the street before you kill yourself or someone else.

So you're saying that riding (I've never driven a motorcycle yet) on the street isn't a sport unless the rider is breaking the speed limit, other traffic laws or otherwise putting his life and that of others in peril?  You can ride sportingly without even breaking the speed limit. Maybe not on large displacement bikes, but on small ones it's entirely possible especially if they're vintage. The old "slow" bike "fast" vs. "fast" bike "slow".

Do you ever talk on a mobile phone (even hands free), talk to a passenger, eat or drink while driving your car? If so, then you're more of a danger to others than me riding "sportingly". 

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Gee, whooda thunk participating in a sport required license and insurance?

Most racing organizations (car and motorcycle) require both!

[oldbike54]

If you aren't driving a m/c you are only along for the ride. You aren't in control.

Gee, whooda thunk participating in a sport required license and insurance?

 One drives a car and a golf ball , one rides a horse and a motorcycle .

 Oh , and racing horses , surely a sport , requires a license and insurance .

  Dusty

[Two Checks]

But driving sportingly does not make it a sport. You can drive a bus "sportingly".

Where did te term, "driving" come from? As in driving horses.

See, gummint got involved and to race ya gotta have a license and shawrance.

Operating a m/c on the street isn't a game. Is driving a car a sport?

[oldbike54]

But driving sportingly does not make it a sport. You can drive a bus "sportingly".

Where did te term, "driving" come from? As in driving horses.

See, gummint got involved and to race ya gotta have a license and shawrance.

Operating a m/c on the street isn't a game. Is driving a car a sport?

" Driving horses " has nothing to do with riding them , but refers to moving them , as in "we gotta drive those horses to Kansas" .

 The fact that motorcycling involves challenges and discomforts qualifies it as a sport .

  Dusty

[Tobit]

Why did I pick a bus? Because I didn't pick a truck.
A bus and a m/c are motor vehicles. Bothe driven on the street. If you think driving a m/c is a sport you are driving at the wrong venue. Driving a m/c on the street carries with it certain responsibilities. Just like that bus. If driving is agame to you take it off the street before you kill yourself or someone else.

You may be confusing racing on the street with simply enjoying the more nimble attribute of a motorcycle when contrasted with a four wheeled vehicle.  I don't think anyone here advocates racing on the street but one can experience the sporting side of motorcycling by simply riding briskly and responsibly when the time, traffic and conditions permit.

You're no doubt aware that motorcycling has evolved from utilitarian post-WWII transportation through a personal choice of transportation through today where I see it as more diversion than necessity.  A large part of the "Sport" of motorcycling for me is holding my intended line through a curve, hitting my braking points, keeping escape routes planned and staying alive.  All of which can be thrilling pursued at or below the speed limit.

If to be Sport, goals have to be achieved and measured, I do it each time I ride.  Did I operate more smoothly today?  Was I a better motorcyclist?  Do I need to practice a particular maneuver?  Could I have merged more safely?  Where am I deficient? 

Or I can pursue sport as most car drivers do.  How many lanes can I change at once without signalling?  Can I get closer to the car in front of me?  How many texts can I send before my off-ramp?  How many drivers can I prevent from merging into my lane?  If I have more and brighter LEDs on the front of my car / truck I can look cool and do whatever I want.

YMMV, Mine does.

Tobit.