Wanted: Long-Distance Comfort and High-Speed Stability

[oldbike54]

 Dang Chuckie , how many auxiliary fuel tanks are on that Norge ? 

  Dusty

[Chuck in Indiana]

Dang Chuckie , how many auxiliary fuel tanks are on that Norge ? 

  Dusty

It would go about 225 before refueling. Less than that when averaging 85 or so.. What I meant that was after 400 or so, I'd get antsy. At around 450 I'd have to stand up for a bit. Know what I mean? There's only one position on the Norge..

[bad Chad]

Come on here, something is either way wrong with your bike, or somethings amiss with you.   The Norge, like most all big block Guzzi are known for their stability at speed, the term "Locomotive power" sound familiar?

If your serious, have the bike looked and by a qualified Guzzi tech, or move on to something "more stable".

[Demar]

Any thoughts? Would the Stelvio be better, or the California 1400 Touring? Or perhaps a Road King, R 1200 RT, or Trophy SE?

Thanks!

Jeff, my 2012 Stelvio NTX is rock solid at any speed. I typically cruise at 75-80mph on the freeway and even in crosswinds it's very stable. I haven't ridden a Norge so I can't compare. I like the upright seating on the Stelvio. It handles superbly in the twisties, better than you think it has a right to. I did replace the seat with a Seth Lamm custom seat as after about 250 miles the stock seat would pinch my thighs a bit. I have a 30" inseam and can't flatfoot with both feet. It's only a concern if parked nose downhill as I can't push back. I try to avoid that situation and if I can't I just drag the bike back and then get on.

[kevinkaren2011]

I find my Norge is quite comfortable once I put on an Airhawk. I am 6-4, 34 inseam and it fits me fine, my only complaint was my ass going to sleep but once the cushion was installed I can go between fill-ups without any problems.

I ride a Beemer F650GS,the Norge and a Harley Electra Glide. The GS is the lightest and tallest at 375 lbs, 500+ and 800+ respectably. At highway use with the wind buffering, I find the heavier and shorter bikes to be more stable around cross winds and semis. The Harley plows through like a tank.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Come on here, something is either way wrong with your bike, or somethings amiss with you.   The Norge, like most all big block Guzzi are known for their stability at speed, the term "Locomotive power" sound familiar?

If your serious, have the bike looked and by a qualified Guzzi tech, or move on to something "more stable".

Seriously. Too tight a grip on the bars translates into "instability". If you have "weight" on the bars, you are doing something wrong. The machine *wants* to be stable. Just the gentlest pressure is all that is required to keep it going in the direction you want.
I'm not preaching here.. well maybe a little.. but I feel it is important. If your arms are rigid, any buffeting from crosswinds, etc. translates to movement at the bars. This causes countersteering, that's for another thread..  and perceived instability..
I mean absolutely no offense to the OP. Just think about it..and give relaxation a try.

[Kev m]

Jeff, what are you finding uncomfortable?

On my Breva I was good for the first 200 of the day, and started to cramp at the knees for the next 100-200.

I used an OEM gel seat (the lower one, not that I needed the height, so maybe that contributed to the leg cramps). The seat itself was comfy though and I doubt the taller one would help since my legs were basically locked in one position.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Jeff, what are you finding uncomfortable?

On my Breva I was good for the first 200 of the day, and started to cramp at the knees for the next 100-200.

I used an OEM gel seat (the lower one, not that I needed the height, so maybe that contributed to the leg cramps). The seat itself was comfy though and I doubt the trailer one would help since my legs were basically locked in one position.

Yeah, that's the main problem with the Norge as far as comfort goes..

[canuguzzi]

Jeff, within the next 2 weeks I'll be running down through Portland coming from Seattle and down to CA so I'll be coasting past Hubbard, Or. If it works for you I can stop by and see if your Norge is going bonkers at speed. I'm about #30 less than you but same height, within an inch of inseam.

I'll be running a MG Norge gel seat and you can try it out to see if you think one might help your situation.

From your last I just had to go out and stand up on the thing, no way I could get out over the windscreen. Since you've had some service done lately, could it be that the monsters took off some of the plastics and didn't put them on right? If the fairing got tilted or something like that it could really mess with how it handles.

On that tail trunk, load it last and do not put really heavy items in it. That thing sits high and far back so just a bit too much weight or weight there but none in the side bags will make any bike wallow around. Also, side bags must be equally loaded. Putting stuff in one and not the other is a sure way to cause imbalance that you will fight the entire ride.

[Bill Hagan]

Jeff, within the next 2 weeks I'll be running down through Portland coming from Seattle and down to CA so I'll be coasting past Hubbard, Or. If it works for you I can stop by and see if your Norge is going bonkers at speed. I'm about #30 less than you but same height, within an inch of inseam.

I'll be running a MG Norge gel seat and you can try it out to see if you think one might help your situation.

From your last I just had to go out and stand up on the thing, no way I could get out over the windscreen. Since you've had some service done lately, could it be that the monsters took off some of the plastics and didn't put them on right? If the fairing got tilted or something like that it could really mess with how it handles.

On that tail trunk, load it last and do not put really heavy items in it. That thing sits high and far back so just a bit too much weight or weight there but none in the side bags will make any bike wallow around. Also, side bags must be equally loaded. Putting stuff in one and not the other is a sure way to cause imbalance that you will fight the entire ride.

Yes!  :1:

Bill

[tpeever]

I've never heard that kind of negative report on a Norge, and my (limited) experience with the bikes is quite the opposite as yours.

What is it about the Norge's seating that is uncomfortable?  I found Norge to be touring-bike comfortable.  In fact, too "touring" for my daily riding tastes...

I got nothing on the instability.  Never heard that complaint.  Didn't experience it when I've demo'd the bikes.

Sounds to me like an aftermarket seat and a larger windscreen would be worth trying, before trading it for something else.

Agreed. I would expect the Norge to be rock solid at 75 mph.

My 1200 Sport is the ultimate touring machine for me. Absolutely rock solid at 80 mph. I don't like full fairings and the small fairing on the Sport is perfect. Just takes enough wind off your chest.

[56Pan]

(snipped)

If your Norge is unstable at 70-80 which is a sweet spot for the Norge, something just has to be wrong in the setup.

(snipped)

I have to agree with this.  My '12 Norge is rock solid at those speeds.  Something must be set up wrong.

[Waltr]

Jeff,
        I was about to post a discovery I have had with my Norge but it seems you have beat me to it.  Although it is the same discovery the culprit is not the Norge. Let me explain. 
         Other than making sure the basics are set correctly (the factory has the numbers pretty much right on) front tire pressure 36 psi,  rear 40 psi.  2 or three turns out for fork pre-load.  25 clicks rear pre-load. 
         Next thing is ditch the Agostini shield.  The Agostini will work wonders if there is little or no wind, or if you are not running the highway and passing trucks.  The Cal Sci is better but still not as stable as the stock shield in windy conditions.  I rode around 450 miles this last Sunday with the Agostini.  Left the house around 8AM duing still and clear conditions.  Wind picked up in the afternoon and I had the worst 200 miles I ever had on the bike. The larger shield seemed to have less protection at speed than the stock shield, just plain strange.
          Just installed the stock shield and there is no difference from 60 to 90 mph.  Could have gone faster but id not want to get any performance awards.
          I have a complete Matris setup waiting to go on.  I believe the stock suspension a little stiff or insensitive to small bumps and I am hoping high quality suspension components to help the stability thing. 

[Hugh Straub]

While this is a MG site, you never the less might consider a Honda NT700V.  Full fairing, locking hard panniers, at least 50 lbs lighter than the Norge, Adjustible wind screen, comfortable for long distances with addition of after market highway pegs, shaft drive, 50+ Mpg at 75 MPH and it runs like a Honda, even though its built in Spain by Montessa.  The bike won't go 140, but just how often do you need that?

For a bike that's your primary transport, its worth a look.

[JeffOlson]

Good comments, everyone. Thanks!

I'll try it with the top case off and see how that affects things. I have also just reinstalled the stock windscreen. That may help, too.

I think the instability I'm feeling is due to the top case and all the traffic and wind swirling around me at that speed. At 90 or 100 mph, with no other vehicles in sight, my Norge is rock solid. Unfortunately, I can't ride like that very often. 

And Norge Pilot, that would be great! We just sold our house in Lake Oswego and will be moving this week into an old farm house in Hubbard temporarily while we remodel the old cabin in Olympia...

[rocker59]

Sorry, but it is *not* the bike. The Norge is extremely stable at any speed I've seen. I'm guessing that you are holding on to the bars. At speed, they are only good as a place to hang the controls. The machine is stable unless you mess with it. Like an airplane, a *very* light touch is all that is required. A "death grip" will cause any motorcycle to move around as you are hit by wind gusts.
The riding position? Yes. The Norge locks you into one position. Occasionally raising out of the seat a little helps. I found that after around 450 miles, I had to stand up for a bit. <shrug>

Loose clothing and a tight grip on the bars is always good for an 80mph weave!

[atavar]

I am 6' and 275 lbs.  The Norge is very comfortable for me, I have done multiple IBA rides on it.  I also have been amazed at how stable it is even at speeds well in to triple digits.  My experience is that the bike actually feels more stable at 110 than it does at 95 (95 is very stable also). 
It sounds to me like there are some problems with your Norge that you should have the dealer look at.

[frans belgium]

My 2014 Norge is lot of fun, but it is not very comfortable after 100 miles or so, and it is pretty unstable above 65 miles per hour.
Thanks!

Sorry to burst in.  I didn't read your full comment or the answers, so my reaction will certainly be biased.
I own and ride a Norge 8V for a number of years now, and I don't get your comments.
Bmw and other makes have wonderful bikes that will certainly meet your standards

[Zoom Zoom]

I had a Norge. Great bike. I never had any stability issues at any speed, ever. As Rocker and Kev mentioned, all that surface area did catch a lot in heavy cross winds, but it was nothing I couldn't deal with. As for comfort, I had done a lot to my Norge, Russell saddle, taller windshield, raised the bars a little. It was very comfortable, but as Peter pointed out, I was still locked into one riding position that eventually became intolerable. I traded that on a Stelvio. No regrets. I would do it again in a second. No doubt an aftermarket seat would be better, but the Stelvio has a decent seat from the factory, so I have not been compelled to change it. I have done a couple of 700+ days on that bike. Those were getting iffy. Done 600 mile days a number of times without issue.

John Henry

[mjptexas]

I'm pretty happy with my Cali 1400 as a long distance ride.  Doesn't offer the protection the Norge does but it works for me.

As far as other brands go my friend has a Kawasaki Concours 1400. Absolutely swears by it.

[Kev m]

I had a Norge. Great bike. 

<snip>

It was very comfortable, but as Peter pointed out, I was still locked into one riding position that eventually became intolerable. I traded that on a Stelvio. No regrets.

<snip>

Done 600 mile days a number of times without issue.

So what is different about the Stelvio that doesn't lock you into one riding position, or is that position somehow less likely to produce knee cramping?

[Waltr]

  Ditch the larger Agostini shield.  My bike is all over the place in the slightest wind with this shield.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Good comments, everyone. Thanks!

I'll try it with the top case off and see how that affects things. I have also just reinstalled the stock windscreen. That may help, too.

I think the instability I'm feeling is due to the top case and all the traffic and wind swirling around me at that speed. At 90 or 100 mph, with no other vehicles in sight, my Norge is rock solid. Unfortunately, I can't ride like that very often. 

And Norge Pilot, that would be great! We just sold our house in Lake Oswego and will be moving this week into an old farm house in Hubbard temporarily while we remodel the old cabin in Olympia...

Sorry, I missed that you had a top box on it. I do not like them, Sam I am.  That is a really bad place to have any weight at all, not to mention the aerodynamics. That could definitely have a bearing..

[Scott of the Sahara]

The section of freeway that you will be riding has alot of trucks. It does not matter much what I am riding or driving, I do not want to be around trucks. There does not seem to be an alternative route to Olympia without going way out of your way. My '08 Norge with the Cali Science windscreen is stable up to 100mph (I have not gone any faster). It loves 75 and 80mph.

[pyoungbl]

So what is different about the Stelvio that doesn't lock you into one riding position, or is that position somehow less likely to produce knee cramping?

Two different issues here.  My Norge seat had a dip that made it difficult to slide back and change the orientation of my arms/knees/ass.  That same dip put my knees into a slightly more bent position than I like but, more importantly, I found that after a few hours sitting with my knees in one position they did not want to support the weight of the bike when I stopped.  I need to be able to move around on the seat.

If my inseam were less it might not be such a big deal.  My riding buddy uses an Air Hawk on his Norge and does not have these problems but his inseam is also shorter.

Peter Y.

[kirb]

The Norge was a little cramped for my tastes and I ditched the FJR for the same reasons. The stelvio was much better for long distance comfort. The seat is great, the range is long, wind protection is damn good, and I can stand on the pegs at any speed to help with leg cramps. I can ride the tank dry if I had to (300+ miles), but usually pull off 150 mile stints between breaks for sanity reasons.

I run the NTX without side cases most of the time due to how W-I-D-E it is. Some have ditched the racks and dropped some large bills on the euro cases which help considerably.
I usually use a small rear pack for daily riding: http://stelviontx.blogspot.com/2013/04/luggage-rack-bag-and-bobbins.html
I will add the topcase for more storage with our without side cases: http://stelviontx.blogspot.com/2013/07/revised-rear-rack-for-swm-topcase.html
For anyone over 5'2", I suggest a windshield extension or aftermarket shield: http://stelviontx.blogspot.com/2013/05/other-items-that-i-use-not-really-mods.html

The setup in the blog is my touring rig. I can go anywhere solo or two up for a week or more without issue. The most comfortable and stable touring rig to date for ~me~.

[Waltr]

I have the Guzzi top box and the stock shield is fine around trucks and any speed, not so with the Agostini.

[canuguzzi]

Good comments, everyone. Thanks!

I'll try it with the top case off and see how that affects things. I have also just reinstalled the stock windscreen. That may help, too.

I think the instability I'm feeling is due to the top case and all the traffic and wind swirling around me at that speed. At 90 or 100 mph, with no other vehicles in sight, my Norge is rock solid. Unfortunately, I can't ride like that very often. 

And Norge Pilot, that would be great! We just sold our house in Lake Oswego and will be moving this week into an old farm house in Hubbard temporarily while we remodel the old cabin in Olympia...

I'm betting the instability issue can be resolved through a variety of ways, the comfort part as well within practical limits. Sure beats buying another bike if things work out.

After an hour or so of riding I stop and stretch. I get there just as quickly as the hard core riders who sit in the saddle for hours on end and probably have a better time doing it. Whats the hurry anyway?

I've found that the longer your reach to the bars the fewer options you have to move around in the seat. When I got my bars up an inch and back about the same it made all the difference. I could sit closer to the tank or scoot back on the stock Norge seat.

A really good helmet also makes a huge difference.

In the end, its a total package, rider, bike and gear that make for comfort. It can take some time to get it right but its worth the effort.

[bad Chad]

It's not the top box.   I often travel with a fairly big Guzzi/Givi box and even loaded up well past its 11LB limit, it poses no noticeable effect under 85 mph.   

We are just busy pounding the old dead horse here.

[charlie b]

While this is a MG site, you never the less might consider a Honda NT700V.  Full fairing, locking hard panniers, at least 50 lbs lighter than the Norge, Adjustible wind screen, comfortable for long distances with addition of after market highway pegs, shaft drive, 50+ Mpg at 75 MPH and it runs like a Honda, even though its built in Spain by Montessa.  The bike won't go 140, but just how often do you need that?

For a bike that's your primary transport, its worth a look.

I had one for a few years and 28k miles.  It reacted more to crosswinds and turbulence than my Goose.  With a loaded trunk on it I could feel a slight weave at the 80-90 range (I did have a larger windshield on it).

It was a great all around bike and trouble free.  I just didn't need two bikes that did the same thing.  So, kept the Goose and sold the Honda.  FWIW, a guy with an ST1300 bought it cause his new knees would not work with the ST any more.