toaster404's California 1400 thread - questions and observations

[kirby1923]

I'm liking my CX more and more.

Thinking about adding a mag compass and a clock.


mike

[oldbike54]

 Robert Edison Fulton 

  Dusty

[Lannis]

I'm liking my CX more and more.

Thinking about adding a mag compass and a clock.


mike

On the ride to the National, I hooked up with three Guzzi Guys, who had stopped for lunch in New York somewhere on the way …..



A Griso …



and a Cal Vintage



and a Cal 1400 …



I happened to be carrying a piece of High Tech that day on my Stelvio …





It’s something that may not have gotten to everyone yet.   It’s an analog device, no battery required.   You preload it with the destination information that you desire (I understand you have to do that with so-called “GPS” systems too), and then you just turn a little knob, and the exact turn-by-turn directions to get you to your destination appear.

I felt a little bad about having this kind of advantage over my new riding partners, until I saw that the new 1400 had a system that didn’t even require turning a knob.


I may have to upgrade soon.

Lannis

[kirby1923]

I think girls have always been tougher than men/boys.

Take procreation as one example, if it were up to men to carry that whole thing thru...well there would be allot less people on this planet in short order.

mike

Oh no, I have strayed from the original topic!

[Lannis]

I think girls have always been tougher than men/boys.

Take procreation as one example, if it were up to men to carry that whole thing thru...well there would be allot less people on this planet in short order.

mike

Oh no, I have strayed from the original topic!

On the other hand, if women had the same level of sex drive that men do, nothing would ever get done EXCEPT procreation.

But I suppose someone has to say "Not tonight, honey".   I don't know any men that have ever said that.

Lannis

[toaster404]

Now that I'm over 60, I just like to have things the way I like them, and then just take care of them!  I have a file on each major machine and a log so I can keep track.  One of the different things now is the long Interstate runs at high speed.  Really need everything sorted to remain comfortable, which is what I'm up to.  I also like experimenting with this and that. 

The logbook proves very useful in seeing trends.  Such as my truck, which has gradually increased oil use.  I know by how much, and I know that the amount oozing out of the seals at the front has increased by an appropriate amount.  Clean exhaust, so I'm not burning much if any.  I'm looking for an uptick in loss rate, then I'll go ahead and get to the front seals.  At this rate, might not be ever!!  230,000 miles since 1991 and only gets spartan farm use now.  But needs a battery and brake fluid change, coolant change, and a bit of sanding and painting. 

I do want a stripped down light naked bike again for ripping around the mountains.  That V-7 racer sure would be fun!!!  But too many bikes already. 

I am really looking forward to popping my SO onto some older MG cruisers, see how she likes that.

Be well

[toaster404]

Spoke with dealer.  Whatever map arrived with bike is what is there.  If changed, worth finding someone to update it?

[Zoom Zoom]

It is my understanding that if there is an update available the dealer will be alerted when they plug in their puter to the bike. So, either the puter was never connected or there were no updated available. Assuming that is part of the PDI, my **guess** is there no updates.

John Henry

[toaster404]

200 miles of mountains and turns on Cali 1400 today.  Stock saddle is not going to get me across the country, even with an air hawk.  What's the consensus, if any, about the most effective replacment or rework?  I don't know what I'd ask Sargent to do, but I love the Sargent on my DL1000.  The Corbin looks great.  What else to look at or consider?

[rocker59]

200 miles of mountains and turns on Cali 1400 today.  Stock saddle is not going to get me across the country, even with an air hawk.  What's the consensus, if any, about the most effective replacment or rework?  I don't know what I'd ask Sargent to do, but I love the Sargent on my DL1000.  The Corbin looks great.  What else to look at or consider?

The Corbin for the Cal 14 is supposed to be really good.

There are these two builders who are also highly regarded:

www.day-long.com

billmayer-saddles.com

[toaster404]

Got pics of my bike on the Dragon:

http://killboy.photoreflect.com/store/Orderpage.aspx?pi=04RK02IR020431&po=604&pc=3593  Kury Grantour makes a good backrest.

Here's the whole crew: http://killboy.photoreflect.com/store/Orderpage.aspx?pi=04RK02IR020431&po=604&pc=3593

I'm as slow as I can on the 1400 in the lead, Ms. B. is on the VL800  for her first trip with it over the Dragon, and our friend's first trip on his Ultra HD in the rear. 

[tiger_one]

Nice, thanks.

[elvisboy77]

Cool!

[toaster404]

Undoubtedly discussed at length, but having difficulty sorting wheat from chaff.  Gets hashed out, I know, but generally includes inapplicable analogies or outdated information.  My experience outdated.  My 2002 Lincoln LS does fine on 87 RM octane for Interstate.  My 1996 BMW does not, and insists upon 89 for decent mileage and performance.

My California 1400 has all kinds of modern sensors to correct mixtures that I am unfamiliar with.  Background:

1.  1400 miles now.
2.  At 950 miles, plug insulators were bone white, but no melting.
3.  Runs faintly but distinctly better on 91 RM octane 100% as compared to 93 octane 10%.
4.  100% gasoline no-ethanol is available here in 87 octane and 91 octane, but miles apart and not always possible to select 91 octane.
5.  91 octane is more expensive than 87 octane in the 100% gasoline domain

A. Will the 1400 run fine without damage on the 87 RM octane 100% at 880 ft through 3000 ft elevation? 
B. Guess or data on what this will do with mileage?

I would anticipate a 5 to 10% loss in general "snap" at the edges of engine performance, but if the pre-ignition engine management stuff works, then I would expect no noticeable difference under normal riding conditions.

Thank you for any current information. 

[LowRyter]

sooner or later you have to fuel it whatever gas is available.  Certainly one tank won't hurt.

[elvisboy77]

I cannot think of any compelling reason to use a fuel that does not meet the specification of the owners manual.

[rocker59]

The bike manual recommends 90 octane (RON + MON)/2

I don't think I'd run 87 unless I was in the mountains over 5000 feet, and only if it's what they had.

89 at your elevation, if that was my highest choice.

Sure, we've all pulled into a station with only 87 and had to use it, but if the OEM recommends 90+, that's what I'd use.

[toaster404]

My interest is not in the odd tank here or there, but the general applicability.  I pushed BMW on octane for my 5 series, and eventually someone in tech admitted that absolutely nothing bad would happen with 87 instead of 91, but that I would suffer some loss of performance at the outside edges of the envelope.  This was absolutely true.  My mileage suffered a little bit, and I did lose snap in the twisties.  So I mostly ran high test, but would pop 87 in for long slow Interstate work without issue.  "Slow" for that car being something like 80 mph.

Thus I have an interest on whether the engine management system will handle 87 without any issues in the 1400.  I'm mostly loafing around here, barely using the bike's potential.  If I am actually going to use it, I can arrange 91 octane or use 93 ethanol.  But everyday use is not particularly demanding because of short sight lines, those annoying other road users, and the disturbingly restrictive speed limits.

[LowRyter]

with big air cooled cylinders, I run premium.

[Aaron D.]

Wow. My Audi A5 has 60,000 miles and I haven't looked at plugs. Same with my Scout at 8,000 miles. Why in the world would I bother? The whole point of all the new tech is to let us get on with riding.

I put new plugs in my Sport 1100 3 or 4 years ago.

Come to New England, all gas is 10% ethanol and has been for years. So all we have to do is put gas in and go.

[decotriumph]

The owner's manual calls for premium fuel and there is no advantage to Moto Guzzi to specify that if low octane works as well. I have run 10% ethanol and 0% ethanol in my '14 Stelvio and have seen no difference in performance.

For comparison, though, in my '14 Harley, which was also fuel injected and also called for premium fuel, I was forced to buy lower octane 10% once because I was almost out of gas and the station was out of premium. The bike knocked and pinged on that gas and that's the only time it ever did that in 3000 miles of riding.

I'd stick with premium grade whether 10% or 0%. That's what the engine was designed to run on in the US.

[bratman2]

Lower octane fuel in your 1400 that is designed to run higher can result in spark knock. You can not always hear it. If it does it enough it will damage the engine.

[Kev m]

Toast, here's the thing. The BMW car most likely had a knock sensor or some other way of detecting spark knock and retarding timing to prevent damage.

Here's the question, does the Cali have any such system?

Deco, funny you mention a late-model Harley. Was it a BT? I was under the impression that used some sort of ION sensing ignition strategy to prevent spark knock. I believe the Sportster ECM's do not however.

I used to cheap out occasionally on the 07 Sportster, and still can in winter if I'm not pushing it, but generally speaking and especially with ethanol fuels which already make the mixture leaner, I find it smarter to use the minimum recommended octane.

Ymmv

[Vasco DG]

I did a butt-load of miles on a Cali 14 in the U.S. In 2013. Where I could I put the high octane stuff in. When we were in Bum-F*ck nowhere I put any old lizard piss that came out of the bowser in it.

We were two up and heavily laden. The horizon continued to come towards us no matter what was in the tank but it ran slightly smoother with the high octane stuff in. AFAIK it ALL had the wasteful bioethanol in it, at least I never sought out anything 'Special' for it.

Pete

[Zoom Zoom]

The bike manual recommends 90 octane (RON + MON)/2

What Mike said. I don't know about the manual for the Touring or Custom, but that is what is written on page 131 for the Eldo/Audace manual. Around here I generally find 87, 89, 93, sometimes 91. Operative word being sometimes. Anyway, my dealer suggested I run 89 rather than 93 as the plugs are more the desirable color. So, I have been running 89 since the first service and have not experienced any pinging. Would I put 87 in it? No, not unless it was the only option to walking, (and I have been in those situations as well). First service was performed at about 625 miles and I presently have 1700 or so miles on the clock.

So I would say to use as close to recommended as the manual states. I don't know if one point in the octane either way would make a huge difference, but like I said, I have not had any trouble with pinging and I have used the bike for all types or riding, including highway miles.

John Henry

edit: After re-reading the posts, if you are having trouble getting 89, 90,or 91 in your parts, I would give the 87 a try. If you make an effort not to lug the engine, (which will probably induce pinging on 87), you can probably get away with it. As you may know, (or not), pinging, also known as pre-ignition is a bad thing. As the long version implies, the fuel charge is exploding before the piston has reached the top and from a mechanical standpoint is actually pushing the piston before the crank has made it around. In other words, backward. So yes, pinging is bad!!!!!

[Peter from Sch'dy]

These things have 3 selectable maps correct? Do the maps with lower performance retard ignition? If you had to use weasel piss, would the "rain" map help? I think I remember correctly that years ago the digiplex ignition had a jumper to retard for lousy gas...

Best,
Peter

[lucian]

I always run 91 10% as that is what was suggested at the dealer when I bought my custom. When traveling I carry octane booster encase 91 is unavailable to prevent knocking under load. Why would you go against the factory recommendation on an expensive bike under warranty to save a few pennies and possibly invoke major engine wear or failure which may then not be covered? Penny wise dollar foolish. Why you continue to f*** around with your brand new bike is beyond me.      Dave

[Nick]

........Why would you go against the factory recommendation on an expensive bike under warranty to save a few pennies and possibly invoke major engine wear or failure which may then not be covered? Penny wise dollar foolish. Why you continue to f$!k around with your brand new bike is beyond me.      Dave

:1:

Page 114 of the 1400 touring OM (at least the one I have accessed ;-) )

and, as R59 indicated, it translates to 90 octanes. 

[Lannis]

I think I remember correctly that years ago the digiplex ignition had a jumper to retard for lousy gas...

Best,
Peter

My 1955 BSA M21 has a better system than that ... it's an infinitely adjustable user-actuated ignition retard system that can be set in continuous increments to whatever timing setting suits the particular fuel that's being burned at the moment .....

Lannis

[decotriumph]

Deco, funny you mention a late-model Harley. Was it a BT? I was under the impression that used some sort of ION sensing ignition strategy to prevent spark knock. I believe the Sportster ECM's do not however.

Yes, it was a Road King.