Valve adjusting proceedure on 'new' oil cooled alt models

[foggy95]

I'm about to perform first service (620 mi) on my 2015 V7R, and have most of the information gathered and am quite confident as I used to check/adjust the valves on my older big block Guzzis years ago.

One question - the 'new' V7 engine on my bike has the 'oil cooled' alternator, and the most recommended procedure for turning the engine on the previous types is to remove the alternator cover and turn the engine to TDC using a socket on the crankshaft nut. Pretty straightforward stuff ... however, with the oil cooled alternator, will this method work (no center stand on the bike so I can't easily rotate the engine by turning the rear wheel).

If I pull the alternator cover off, will oil come out? Not too concerned about that cause I'll be doing a full oil change anyway. Has anyone done this with the new alternator set up yet? Any other concerns to look out for?

My buddy just had his 2014 V7R first service done at the dealer, and I was shocked at the cost - over $700 and other than 600 mi svc all they did was install a sump spacer and Pazzo levers (both of which my buddy supplied). I also don't believe the engine could have reached the 'cold' status required for the valve adjustment since they performed the work while we waited, and we rode up there.

Thanks in advance for any tips/advice!

[guzzisteve]

No centerstand? Use blocks of wood, in 6th gear use rear wheel.

[Murray]

No centerstand? Use blocks of wood, in 6th gear use rear wheel.

***with the spark plugs removed.

[Wayne Orwig]

I've never removed the alternator cover that I recall on anything. On all of mine I always put it in 5th or 6th gear and bump the rear wheel. On my Centauro, with no center stand, it just meant rolling forward a bit, then pull the clutch and roll back, then forward a bit.
I wouldn't think of inviting an oil leak on the new V7 by pulling that cover.

[Kev m]

I always use the alternator cover, but even I would use the rear wheel on a 2015 V7.

Cycle Gear sells a relatively cheap wheel dolly (like around $25 if I remember). It's a metal frame with a couple of rollers. You roll the bike in position so the rear wheel is sitting on the rollers and then you can freely turn the rear wheel with the bike on the side stand.

It's basically how we clean/lube the chain on Jenn's Duc, though we use a pricier/smaller one from Stitch.

[pyoungbl]

My buddy just had his 2014 V7R first service done at the dealer, and I was shocked at the cost - over $700 and other than 600 mi svc all they did was install a sump spacer and Pazzo levers (both of which my buddy supplied). I also don't believe the engine could have reached the 'cold' status required for the valve adjustment since they performed the work while we waited, and we rode up there.

I'm probably the first to defend a dealer since there are always two sides to a story and I have heard many of the stories from the dealers side...then the customer's side.  In this case it's just what is written here.  Based solely on that I cannot understand how the bill could get to $700 for something the manual quotes as a 100 minute job (page 199, owners manual).  Even if I add in 30 minutes for the sump spacer and 30 minutes for the levers it's still only 2 1/2 hours labor.  Billed at $100 per hour I'd expect something like $250 labor and maybe $70 for parts and shop supplies (2L engine oil, oil filter, 1L transmission oil, bevel box 170ml oil).  I guess I'm missing something critical, but what?

Peter Y.

[Bill Hagan]

****

I also don't believe the engine could have reached the 'cold' status required for the valve adjustment since they performed the work while we waited, and we rode up there.

****

Apologies if I missed it, but didn't see anyone address this aspect of the OP's post.

Have often wondered how "cold" the engine has to be for an accurate valve adjustment..

Have seen dealers put fans on it to cool more rapidly, and wondered if the "sit all night" was just ideal and safe-siding, but the shorter intervals were OK. The OP's description of the time elapsed seems mighty short by any standard, but ask as -- along with the OP --  I do not know.

***with the spark plugs removed.

Uhm, yes.  BTDT.  Also had a scare recently when -- using the alternator approach -- I tried turning the crank and the EV moved on the lift!  Yikes. Yup. In gear.   

Bill

[Vasco DG]

Don't try and remove the timing chest cover. Apart from the fact you'd need a new gasket which I highly doubt any dealership would have in stock it would be a complete bear to try and jiggle it out if the frame, you'd need to remove the regulator/rectifier, maybe the horns? Dreadful idea.

Pete

[guzzisteve]

If you have the covers off and drain oil w/hot, a large output fan on it, it will be 1hr to set the valves. Sometimes less depending on how fast meal cools

Without hot oil in motor it cools fast w/covers off.

[oldbike54]

 Regarding the time needed to properly allow an engine to cool before adjusting the valve lash . A famed airhead mechanic recommended 2 hours with a fan blowing over the heads , and occasionally turning over the engine by hand to seat all of the valves to help dissipate stored heat , especially in the exhaust valves . Not sure this period of time would be appropriate for MG engines , but considering the great similarities ... I always allowed an extra hour , being chicken  Curiously , after once setting the exhaust valves on an old Triumph in a severe overheating condition while the engine was still a bit warm , the next morning after a complete cool down , the exhaust valve clearance on both sides was only a thou out . My friend who owned the bike had attempted his first tune up , all of the clearances were really tight . The header pipes were actually glowing , not just because of tight valves , the timing was advanced way too far . That was an interesting roadside tutorial 

  Dusty

[sib]

On my previous '13 Stone, I used to pull the alternator cover, not a totally easy job in itself because the screws were originally glued in with some kind of super Loctite and they almost broke on the way out.  With my new '16 Stone, I use a relatively inexpensive (~$55) scissors jack like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1100LB-Motorcycle-X-Dirt-Bike-ATV-Scissor-Jack-Center-Lift-Crank-Repair-Stand-HD-/321687048090?hash=item4ae60acf9a&item=321687048090&vxp=mtr

Which has uprights that engage the lower frame cross member and keep everything stable.  Also useful for winter storage, keeps the rear wheel off the ground.

[Cam3512]

On my previous '13 Stone, I used to pull the alternator cover, not a totally easy job in itself because the screws were originally glued in with some kind of super Loctite and they almost broke on the way out.

To avoid this on my new V7 Special, I warmed up the engine the night before the service and backed the alternator cover screws out.  Came out smooth, and went back after the service with anit-seize.

Man, your buddy's butt must have bled for a while after that $717.00 bill for the first service.  That's criminal.

[sign216]

To avoid this on my new V7 Special, I warmed up the engine the night before the service and backed the alternator cover screws out.  Came out smooth, and went back after the service with anit-seize.

I like this idea, at least for the old pre-13 engines.

[Kev m]

I like this idea, at least for the old pre-13 engines.

I think it's pre-15?

[pyoungbl]

Question - are these results normal?

Sounds like what I had for my initial service.  Yes, it's so darn easy you have to wonder what you have missed...nothing!

Peter Y.

[rocker59]

I've always lifted the rear wheel, removed the spark plugs, put it in gear, and spun the rear wheel.

[Vasco DG]

Did you re-torque the heads? If not you'll have to go in and do it again.

Pete

[Zoom Zoom]

Pete, didn't Guzzi, (some years ago now), go to a permatorque head gasket like the auto industry has used for some time? I thought I had heard at some point that it was no longer necessary to retorque?

John Henry

[Vasco DG]

Big blocks only. Smallblocks still require a re-torque at first service even though the head gaskets are a monotorque kingerlite construction. Don't ask me? I only work here but if you don't do it they can leak.

32ft/lbs for the big studs and 22ft/lbs for the 12mm nut.

Pete

[Vasco DG]

Yup, you crack 'em off first. Sliding friction is less than static friction so the torque figure is from moving to 'Halt' rather than starting from a standstill.

Pete

[sib]

I did 'check' the torque of the head bolts, but used values of 30 ft lbs for the 4 big ones, and 21 ft lbs for the nut. Not sure where I got those specs from, but somewhere on this forum. I did this while the engine was 'stone' cold, and none of them needed tightening, (torque wrench clicked as soon as I started to tighten).

42 Nm = 31.0 lb ft, 28 Nm = 20.7 lb ft, so you are correct; I doubt that the world will end if you use 32 and 22 instead.

[Kev m]

Yup, you crack 'em off first. Sliding friction is less than static friction so the torque figure is from moving to 'Halt' rather than starting from a standstill.

Pete

This is why it is called retorquing the head bolts and not "checking" head bolt torque. 

[jas67]

I've always lifted the rear wheel, removed the spark plugs, put it in gear, and spun the rear wheel.

 :1:

[jas67]

Big blocks only. Smallblocks still require a re-torque at first service even though the head gaskets are a monotorque kingerlite construction. Don't ask me? I only work here but if you don't do it they can leak.

32ft/lbs for the big studs and 22ft/lbs for the 12mm nut.

Pete

My 2013 V7R is starting a weep a little oil at the one head gasket.  It had just shy of 4,000 mi. on it when I bought it, so, I don't know if the heads were re-torqued at the first service.   Is it safe to do it again?    Will this fix the oil weep?

[guzzisteve]

I do 35ftlbs and 24ftlbs cause this is where they are torqued at from factory.
Even the bigblocks w/the 90* + 90* comes out to be 35ftlbs but the book says 30-32

Been like TIGHT since 93 and intro of the New World motor

My 2013 V7R is starting a weep a little oil at the one head gasket.  It had just shy of 4,000 mi. on it when I bought it, so, I don't know if the heads were re-torqued at the first service.   Is it safe to do it again?    Will this fix the oil weep?

Yes, safe   and Maybe on the seepage.