Moto Guzzi 3rd Oldest Motorcycle Company?

[Robert Sylvester]

Just got this months Cycle World magazine. Great article on the new California. What confuses me is the authors statement that Moto Guzzi is the third oldest continuously run motorcycle company in the world. I have always thought we were the 2nd oldest behind Harley Davidson. Am I missing something?

[rodekyll]

Those claims are more believable if they can name the other two.

[rocker59]

Royal Enfield .

  Dusty

If Indian Enfield is counted, so should be Triumph.

Which would make Guzzi 5th.

I'll go with H-D 1st, Guzzi 2nd, BMW 3rd.

[rocker59]

Technically , it was always called ROYAL Enfield , and production never ceased . Triumph ceased production a couple of times . Pedantic , well sure .

  Dusty

Enfield of India is a different company from the original Royal Enfield (Enfield Cycle Company), and only dates to 1955. 

"In 1955, Enfield Cycle Company partnered with Madras Motors in India in forming Enfield of India, based in Chennai, and started assembling the 350 cc Royal Enfield Bullet motorcycle in Madras. The first machines were assembled from components imported from England. Starting in 1957, Enfield of India acquired the machines necessary to build components in India, and by 1962 all components were made in India

The original Redditch, Worcestershire based company dissolved in 1971, but Enfield of India continued, and bought the rights to use the Royal Enfield name."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Enfield

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Enfield_(India)

[redrider]

Norton was founded in 1898. There have been so many iterations of almost all that the modern company is the old in name only. I go with the original start-up date.

[tazio]

Husqvarna

[Aaron D.]

Husqvarna isn't really continuous, is it?

If you think Enfield should be considered then Indian beats them all. But that would be wrong.

[oldbike54]

Husqvarna

 Troublemaker LOL . Really , since Honda built their first MC in what , 1954 , and to the best of my knowledge has never actually been  taken over by the workers in a lock out , or sold to a bowling ball company , we could say they are the oldest . I stand by my original assertion , Enfield , HD , Moto Guzzi .

  Dusty

[rocker59]

Daimler.

Yeah, they switched to cars, but they're still the oldest.   

[oldbike54]

Husqvarna isn't really continuous, is it?

If you think Enfield should be considered then Indian beats them all. But that would be wrong.

 Using that criteria Enfield is still older .

  Dusty

[oldbike54]

Daimler.

Yeah, they switched to cars, but they're still the oldest.   

 Never a brand , and DeDion actually built and sold trikes before anyone else .

  Dusty

[Scud]

Husqvarnas have been manufactured continuously - although there have been several changes in ownership over the years (true also for Guzzi and many others). BMW had a short stoppage - things were a bit tense in Germany in the early to mid 1940s.

To my knowledge, only Harley and Husky have released 100-year anniversary special-edition bikes - they are marked by chrome baubles and stickers (respectively).

I started a "100-year anniversary wishes" thread over on v11LeMans site a while ago. Docc posted a great interview with Carcano that gives perspective on the company:

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18931&hl=

Odd that Husqvarnas now share so much with KTMs - and that the resurrected SWM is reintroducing the previous Italian Husqvarna models. As an Italian-Husky enthusiast, I'm having a little identity crisis. CafeHusky subdivides the forum into Swedish, Italian, and Austrian bikes (to include the brief BMW mis-adventure).  http://www.cafehusky.com/

Wikipedia on Husqvarna (first bikes in 1903):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husqvarna_Motorcycles

[rocker59]

To my knowledge, only Harley and Husky have released 100-year anniversary special-edition bikes - they are marked by chrome baubles and stickers (respectively).
 

Triumph 2002 model T100 was released as a 100th Anniversary model

[Yeahoo Whoyah]

Can someone start a poll and then we can vote?

[Scud]

Triumph 2002 model T100 was released as a 100th Anniversary model

Thanks. Special paint for them.  Lucifer Orange... what the hell? 

[rocker59]

Can someone start a poll and then we can vote?

Done.

[Denis]

"Oldest Motorcycle Company" is rather  a vague term, isn't it?!

I would tend to discount any shuffling around "just to keep the name alive" sort of claim, just as I would discount any "revivals" or "revisiting".

For oldest continuously produced motorcycles I'm sticking with these:
1. Harley-Davidson (1903)
2. Moto Guzzi (1921)
3. BMW (1923)

If we get into oldest by date, no matter when the company discontinued production, that's a whole separate category and then you get into stuff from the late 1800s where no examples even exist or they made 5 or 10 or 20 examples.

By the same token in the auto world, the only auto manufacturing company in the world that is older than Daimler is Studebaker, founded in 1852. Even if you consider they ceased production in 1966, they are STILL one of the oldest vehicle manufacturing companies in the world. Hell, they were 114 years old when they stopped making cars and trucks. And Oldsmobile still is one of the oldest auto companies in the world and it hasn't produced a car in 11 years.

If you count auto manufacturers STILL manufacturing vehicles, again, that is a different story but again with Daimler being the oldest.

[rodekyll]

Wasn't BSA also founded in 1852?

[ITSec]

Never a brand , and DeDion actually built and sold trikes before anyone else .

  Dusty

Actually, Daimler was a 'brand' (of constructor), Maybach was a partner, and Mercedes was a model and later a model line (and also a partner's daughter's name).  Daimler Motoren Gesellschaft became Daimler Benz which became Daimler AG...

[ohiorider]

Triumph 2002 model T100 was released as a 100th Anniversary model

Making me nostalgic for my 2003 T100 in Lucifer Orange and Silver.  Mine was 'post-factory fire' model, not pre-fire 2002.  She's still ridden and loved by the third owner, who had her trailered in the dead of a January winter from Hudson, Ohio to his home in Philadelphia.  Last I heard, the bike was approaching 65,000 miles.  But 100 years of continuous production? 

[Scud]

"Oldest Motorcycle Company" is rather  a vague term, isn't it?!

I would tend to discount any shuffling around "just to keep the name alive" sort of claim, just as I would discount any "revivals" or "revisiting".

For oldest continuously produced motorcycles I'm sticking with these:
1. Harley-Davidson (1903)
2. Moto Guzzi (1921)
3. BMW (1923)

If we get into oldest by date, no matter when the company discontinued production, that's a whole separate category and then you get into stuff from the late 1800s where no examples even exist or they made 5 or 10 or 20 examples.

We could also ask, "What is the oldest company that at some point produced motorcycles?" Then we'd have to look closely at Husqvarna's founding in the 1600s as a weapons manufacturer - hence the gun-barrel-and-sights logo around the H. I know Husqvarna is not "in the sights" of most street riders, but they have a rich history and I think (and hope) a good future. Rather than being "shuffled around" they're currently offered as a premium product above KTM. I think they've had about as many owners as Moto Guzzi. I feel compelled to represent the "oldest continuous motorcycle manufacturers" list in this fashion:

1. Husqvarna (1903)
2. Harley Davidson (1905) - when they actually produced a motorcycle
3. Moto Guzzi (1921)
4. BMW (1923) - happy to include BMW on the "continuous" list even though they had to cease production briefly at end of WWII.

I agree that resurrected brands such as Indian and Norton are not the same companies as they were the first go-round.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Is there any other motorcycle company that is still building bikes in the same factory they started in? Not the same location, but the original factory. I think Moto Guzzi is alone in that distinction.

[Scud]

Is there any other motorcycle company that is still building bikes in the same factory they started in? Not the same location, but the original factory. I think Moto Guzzi is alone in that distinction.

It's all about how the question is asked. You found the way to put Moto Guzzi at the top of the list. 

Well done. 

[rodekyll]

Uhhh , not as a motorbike company .

  Dusty

And Studebaker was?

[rocker59]

Voting ends today at 4:20.

Vote while you can.

[oldbike54]

Actually, Daimler was a 'brand' (of constructor), Maybach was a partner, and Mercedes was a model and later a model line (and also a partner's daughter's name).  Daimler Motoren Gesellschaft became Daimler Benz which became Daimler AG...

 Cars and trucks , besides , the Reitwagon had outriggers 

  Dusty

[rocker59]

Oh you are SOOOOO funny Mike 

  Dusty

 Wait , I'm polling in third , if elected , I will not serve 

  Dusty

 

[keithl]

I believe Enfield is the oldest brand, but not necessarily oldest motorcycle company. They were making guns first.

[Scud]

I believe Enfield is the oldest brand, but not necessarily oldest motorcycle company. They were making guns first.

Quick internet search turns up:

Royal Enfield founded 1893 as a gun manufacturer, motorcycles in 1901. The Enfield corporation shut down and shipped the manufacturing machines to India. The company that makes Enfields today is not the same company that founded it.

Husqvarna founded in 1689 as a gun manufacturer, motorcycles in 1903. Husqvarna had continuity of (at least some) employees, dealers, and facilities during their ownership transitions.

I'm abstaining from voting, because my candidate is not on the ballot - and there's no provision for a write-in.

FWIW: I also like the argument for Honda being the oldest - but then the definition would need to include some continuity of ownership as well as manufacturing.

This is an interesting discussion. 

[Rough Edge racing]

Voting ends today at 4:20.

Vote while you can.

 On Friday 4:20 comes earlier..