Rollerisation of the 8V.

[pete roper]

Sorry, I lose track.....:D

[jim mac]

Got the parts this week and did the job. All back together again so thought it would start it up. Turned it over with the plugs disconected and then tried with pliugs in.

Plenty of power from battery, fuel pump primes, engine tunrns over but no start.  Checked plugs -bit wet so fuel getting to them, good strong spark so why no start.

Took tank back off to check for anything loose, nothing obvious.

What now ?

[Steph]

Got the parts this week and did the job. All back together again so thought it would start it up. Turned it over with the plugs disconected and then tried with pliugs in.

Plenty of power from battery, fuel pump primes, engine tunrns over but no start.  Checked plugs -bit wet so fuel getting to them, good strong spark so why no start.

Took tank back off to check for anything loose, nothing obvious.

What now ?

I've heard that it is not a good for the electronic ignition to turn over the engine on the button with the plug disconnected. If you turn it on the button, the the plugs should be in the caps and grounded to the block or something. Can someone confirm?

[jim mac]

It was suggested somewhere on here to turn the engine over on the starter to get oil moving and chain tensioner repressurised ?

I took the plugs out to stop it firing, didnt think to flick the kill switch

[lucian]

Did you index the cam chains accurately ?  Check valve timing by positioning each cylinder to TDC,on compression stroke, and see that gaps appear under adjusters.

[jim mac]

I did the the valves, and rechecked the when i couldnt get bike to start.  I am sorry but i dont understand what you mean by indexing the chains - i ensured that the sprocket nipple was at 6 o clock both sides

[lucian]

As long as you didn't move the cylinder from TDC than yes the sprocket dowel remains at 6 o clock, Also it must be at TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke. Were you at TDC on compression stroke when you removed both cam boxes?

[jim mac]

I have to admit that whilst i think so i cant be sure - that was wednesday

[pete roper]

Did you do one side at a time or did you turn the engine over to get the second cambox off before installing the new ones?

Pete

[jim mac]

HI Pete
I replaced one side at a time and then set the valves on both sides.

I noticed that when I turned it over last, a little black rubber sleeve cover shot off a sort of valve fitted on the manifold at the injector on left side. Put my finger there and turned it again and got pressure out of the valve

When you change to rollers does it affect  the valve gap ? I have used 15mm in and 20 out as before

E

[pete roper]

Picture please.

[jim mac]

Hi Pete what specifically would you want a pic of ?

[Wayne Orwig]

A picture of the rubber sleeve that you say blow off would be nice,  where there is pressure when you turn over the motor.

Did you leave the cam sprocket in the chain the entire time while you worked on one side?

Did you do a C kit, or an A or B?

[jim mac]

I will get a pic and upload, it is about 1 inch long and 1/4 dia. The sprocket(s) never left the chain., had it zip tied up

it is an A kit

[pete roper]

That is the port that is used to connect manometers to the manifolds to balance the throttle bodies. It should not have pressure inside it as its on the induction side. I fear that what you have done is lost the timing and bent the inlet valves so as the piston rises on the compression stroke air leaking past the bent valves is pressurising the manifold and has caused the plug to be blown off. Run a compression or leak down test. I think you're up for new valves on one side at least.

Pete

[jim mac]

Thanks for the help chaps, looks like I am going to have to stick it in the garage until I can afford to get someone to look at it. Buying the parts took all my expendable cash for the next few months at least

Ah well, the dangers of letting an amateur loose

[lucian]

Could be leaking on the end of the exhaust stroke, which maybe should be the compression stroke. If you had been on the TDC of the exhaust stroke, instead of the compression stroke, when you installed the left side, than the intake valve could be opening when it should be closed. You need to remove both valve covers and ensure that both rockers are in their relaxed state,with valve gaps open, when the pistons are at TDC on the compression stroke, on their respective sides. Also you can remove the flinger plate covers and inspect that the cam sprocket dowels are at 6 o clock when both intake and exhaust   valves are closed on that side and the piston is at TDC. Hopefully there has been no interfacing between valve and pistons resulting in a bent valve stem  or worse. I think you would have heard an awe full noise if that were the case, but maybe not if the contact is very light but enough to tweek a stem. I would start by verifying the proper valve timing . Don't crank the engine if you aren't sure, use a socket on the front of the crankshaft to turn the motor slowly until you are sure the valve timing is on. 

[jim mac]

OK Lucian, I will look at it all again.  when i finished it i hand cranked it on several revolutions to see if anything was wrong - it all turned smoothly enough.  i didnt hear anything when i was cranking it although i did think the starter sounded a wee bit slower

[Wayne Orwig]

Well if you check the valve clearances to check for a dramatic change, that should identify a bent valve.

[lucian]

Well if you check the valve clearances to check for a dramatic change, that should identify a bent valve.

Agreed but, hopefully the valves are ok and just the cam timing is off 180 degrees. Would be an easy fix then.

[pete roper]

It's unlikely that both sides would be off 360* and that wouldn't explain it popping off the vacuum port cover. I really hope it's something simple but I fear it probably isn't.

Also if the owner doesn't know what the vacuum ports are for how was the bike to be tuned after rollerisation? I believe the Norge needs remapping as well? Unlike the flat tappet systems all the roller cams are identical and their characteristics are different from the flat tappet cams.

Pete

[lucian]

I am thinking he may have had the left bank on tdc exhaust stroke when he pulled the flatties. Wouldn't that put the left cam 180 degrees off when you installed the roller cam sprocket ?

[Wayne Orwig]

Rollerize part question.

The rubber grommet that seals the screws holding on the valve cover changed. The originals on my 2009 were part number 830249 . The roller kit has a different design. But no part number anywhere. They look like they are a better design. More 'squash' to the rubber. The originals are almost not reusable that are so poor.

Anyone have a part number for these newer parts?

[lucian]

Rollerize part question.

The rubber grommet that seals the screws holding on the valve cover changed. The originals on my 2009 were part number 830249 . The roller kit has a different design. But no part number anywhere. They look like they are a better design. More 'squash' to the rubber. The originals are almost not reusable that are so poor.

Anyone have a part number for these newer parts?

The c kit for my 09 came with new seals but they looked the same as the originals. I saved the new ones and am still using the old ones.

[Wayne Orwig]

The c kit for my 09 came with new seals but they looked the same as the originals. I saved the new ones and am still using the old ones.

My originals were cupped on the top. They went on one way. The new ones can go either direction. I assume you have the new ones.

[lucian]

My originals were cupped on the top. They went on one way. The new ones can go either direction. I assume you have the new ones.

I'll check them out tomorrow and let you know which ones they sent. I don't need them anyway at this point and could mail them to you if yours are toast.

[pete roper]

There are two types of Tampon. The early type are meant for the rocker covers that seal around the plug tube with an o-ring in the cover. The later, cupped type, are meant for the rocker covers that seal to the rocker support/cambox with the thick neoprene gasket.

Pete

[jim mac]

It's unlikely that both sides would be off 360* and that wouldn't explain it popping off the vacuum port cover. I really hope it's something simple but I fear it probably isn't.

Also if the owner doesn't know what the vacuum ports are for how was the bike to be tuned after rollerisation? I believe the Norge needs remapping as well? Unlike the flat tappet systems all the roller cams are identical and their characteristics are different from the flat tappet cams.

Pete

Hi Pete,  i have used Manometer before to tune up, but the nipple has looked more like t brake nipple than anything - this one looks almost surgical.

i have just realised something - memory is really crap these days.  when the guideline said set the pin to six o'clock i did just that - vertical 6 o'clock - but now think/realise it should have been set to the bottom hole which is more like 5 on the left and 7 on the right ?

[lucian]

Hi Pete,  i have used Manometer before to tune up, but the nipple has looked more like t brake nipple than anything - this one looks almost surgical.

i have just realised something - memory is really crap these days.  when the guideline said set the pin to six o'clock i did just that - vertical 6 o'clock - but now think/realise it should have been set to the bottom hole which is more like 5 on the left and 7 on the right ?

There you have it.

[jim mac]

So..... is it a matter of resetting the sprockets and doing the valves again.   I checked the Vale gaps again,nothing noticeably changed. I guess the gap would be wider of a valve was bent ?
Turns over quite happily by hand