A riding mistake that is made just a little too often.

[johnr]

... is brought to our attention rather well with this image I thought.



Certainly on our roads this can and does occur way too easily, often with unfortunate results.

[oldbike54]

 Almost eerie , but effective .

  Dusty

[not-fishing]

True and sometimes it's very difficult to force yourself to stay in the outside 1/3rd of the lane.

[SteveAZ]

True and sometimes it's very difficult to force yourself to stay in the outside 1/3rd of the lane.

Especially in an off camber turn when all the gravel settles at the outside.

Still a good pic though. Thanks for posting it.

[Old Jock]

Very effective image.

West coast Scotland, where I am is eerily similar in road size and it also it sadly happens here every year.

Been there seen it done it, bought new underpants

John

[frans belgium]

Yes, but you wonder what some busdrivers are thinking when they take blind and sharp turns at relative high speeds on small roads, their noses sweeping all over the place.
No way to hide for the unfortunate uncoming motorcycle, even on his 1/3 of the lane. These guys freak me out.

[biking sailor]

Yes, but you wonder what some busdrivers are thinking when they take blind and sharp turns at relative high speeds on small roads, their noses sweeping all over the place.
No way to hide for the unfortunate uncoming motorcycle, even on his 1/3 of the lane. These guys freak me out.

Bus driver blew the apex!   

In some parts of the world, that would be called "vehicular manslaghter" by the bus driver.  Unfortunately it happens way to often and ya just gotta be ready to open your line in a blink.  If you can't see it coming and react to it, maybe you should consider another form of transportation.  We all have been there and survived them many times, if we actually ride our bikes much. 

[sib]

Good illustration of the difference between racing and riding.  When racing, you can aim for the best line, but when you're sharing the road, you have to pick the safe line.  Forget what you learned to do on track day.

[Guzzistajohn]

Although the bus driver screwed up, the rider is running too hot for the road condition he's riding in. Good reminder though.

[slowmover]

I make the mistake when I don't slow down enough BEFORE the curve.

[Triple Jim]

From riding the Dragon for six annual week-long 2-stroke meets now, I've become very aware of this problem.  Even if your wheels are in the center of the lane, your head can be closer to the centerline than you think.  With practice, you can get used to staying in the right side of your lane, even on tight curves at a "spirited" speed.  I've seen some of the regulars on that road, that ride it faster than you'd think would be safe, stay way to the right on left curves.  That's a skill worth working on.

[kirby1923]

Says allot for sure.
But you have to remember to keep looking thru the curve even on the outside part of the lane and not stare at the edge 'cause you go where you look!

mike

[johnr]

Yes, but you wonder what some busdrivers are thinking when they take blind and sharp turns at relative high speeds on small roads, their noses sweeping all over the place.
No way to hide for the unfortunate uncoming motorcycle, even on his 1/3 of the lane. These guys freak me out.

Having worked as a bus driver for 11+ years  I can answer that in part.

A bus is a single part vehicle often more than 40 feet in length. They have no hinge in the middle (excepting some mighty long town buses which are not common anyway)

On a tight bend it is simply impossible to get round with the whole bus in the lane. They absolutely must swing wide. Were the driver to try and keep the front of the bus in the lane somewhere about center of the vehicle it would go off road and strike anything (bank, pole etc) that is there.

Also, a bus when it turns will slide its rear wheels sideways in the direction of the turn. The company I worked for actually took the trouble to measure this rear wheel slide on one of its buses. In a normal 90 degree turn in town the rear wheels slid sideways in the direction of turn a whole 6 feet!

Obviously allowance must be made for this too. (Unless the driver plans to wreck)

A side issue worth mentioning while we are discussing this is the amount of bus that over hangs the rear wheels. Four buses of the same model that were owned by the company I worked for had an overhang of 6 meters! (nearly 20 feet)

Imagine how far that 20 feet will swing out in a turn.  A few of the drivers in my company had accidents because of that.

We need to know to keep clear, because there is absolutely nothing the bus driver can do about it.

In fact, the bus in the image is exactly where he should be for that bend. Look at where his wheels are, and bear in mind that everything aft of the front wheels is moving toward the bank.

You are right though in being freeked out by large heavy vehicles. So you should be.  A disproportionate number of incidents where riders come to serious grief involve heavy vehicles. I like to stay well away from the things when I'm riding.

A couple of popular tourist spots down this way are Queenstown and Milford Sound.  Every day between 14 and 20 buses make the journey from Queenstown to Milford and back. The road is in places twisty and steep, and nearer to Milford in places could barely be called two lane.  They are pushed for time to accomplish this within legal time limits and have to deal with passengers that often seem reluctant to actually board the bus after a stop. 

I haven't been up to Milford for some years but were I to take the bike up there I would consciously chose to travel the stretch between TeAnau and Milford at times that the buses don't. ( I would also carry some extra gas)

The image was not made in NZ (driving on the wrong side) I don't know where it came from, but I like it. It could just as easily been a car swinging wide.

[NCAmother]

Especially in an off camber turn when all the gravel settles at the outside.

Still a good pic though. Thanks for posting it.

+1

[JeffOlson]

This picture is a good warning to me...

[cruzziguzzi]

About the time a fella looks at this amazingly effective graphic and cries foul relative to having the time to correct due to a lumbering bus's speed - contemplate the mad-cap speeds of buses overseas or the horrendous driving of RVs here in the states.


Outstanding wake-up call JohnR.

Todd.

[Sasquatch Jim]

  I once made a video riding down Highway 101 in Oregon with a helmet cam.  When viewing it later it was frightening to see how close my head was to oncoming cars in the other lane.  I began wondering just when I might get clipped by one with west coast mirrors that stick out more than a foot.  I now stay further to the right on curves.

[rodekyll]

Up here the tour busses know they're unwieldy and use it as a weapon.  I've been tooling along in a line of traffic and had them simply insert themselves into cross traffic from a side road with no pretense of waiting for a gap in traffic.  Last week outside of Anchorage one rear-ended a parked truck so hard the truck went airborne and disintegrated.  Seven vehicles involved total and one fatality.  Locally the busses creep along at 15mph along the highway while the tour guide holds a microphone in one hand and gestures with the other as the bus goes down the street.  Often there's a police cruiser in the queue behind them.  I asked one day why they're allowed to go 15 in a 45 holding up a long line of traffic and was told "45 is the MAX speed.  There's no rule saying it's the ONLY speed."

[Triple Jim]

RK, be glad you don't drive much in Manhattan.  I once had a NYC taxi driver make a left turn while he was in the middle lane and I was in the left lane, exactly next to him.  He just turned and assumed I'd hit the brakes, and he was right that time.

[HDGoose]

Good illustration of the difference between racing and riding.  When racing, you can aim for the best line, but when you're sharing the road, you have to pick the safe line.  Forget what you learned to do on track day.

The fastest street riders are not the best riders. Only the ones will to take on the risk.

[LongRanger]

Racing or not, that's a terrible line. This guy needs to work on late-apexing. Great visual though.

[SED]

Guilty, and realized it as I was doing it.  Need to train myself to give myself more room.

[canuguzzi]

When you're riding a bike, right and wrong doesn't matter too much. Life and death does.

[AMGeneral]

I had a long rant typed up and decided better against posting it.

 Let's just use this pic as a good reminder to watch out for ourselves out there, cause you never know what will be around the next turn.

[Bill N]

Very educational picture. On blind turns you're crazy to be on the inside. Go too far to the outside and you may get into road debris. So slow down, the highway is not a race track. I get my kicks of hammering the throttle after I can see around the turn. Won't win any races doing that but it keeps me safe on narrow twisty roads Bill

[ITSec]

We can ask who is right and who is wrong, but there's no dispute of who loses.

I sometimes get asked by my more squiddly buddies why I don't ride faster when they know my bike can do it - I just tell them

"I ride as fast as I can see..."

[M0T0Geezer]

One More Thing:

When entering the inside of a very sharp curve, be wary of sudden sand & gravel kicked into the roadway by fat-ass dualie pickup trucks. 

If you got one, you're doing that and don't know it.

'Geezer

[Lannis]

We can ask who is right and who is wrong, but there's no dispute of who loses.

I sometimes get asked by my more squiddly buddies why I don't ride faster when they know my bike can do it - I just tell them

"I ride as fast as I can see..."

I like "squiddly".   

I have some of those buddies too, none on Guzzis though.    They lose me on the blind turns as I slow down so that if there's a bus swinging across the line or a tree down or "fallen rocks" or a truck stalled in my lane, I can stop or dodge in time.   They admit that they wouldn't be able to, but it's part of the excitement of going fast.   Heck with that.   If I want to lay it over in every turn, I'll go for a track day ....

Lannis

[lorazepam]

I live in Amish country, and the hazards here are a bit different. Buggies usually stay on the outside of the curves, and fresh horse manure is pretty dang slippery. Since moving here I have slowed down a lot, because another hazard is assholes in too big of a hurry that pass buggies in curves and other blind sections of road. If you want to ride with me, don't be in a hurry, because I am not.

[Nic in Western NYS]

A later apex would have helped some, but more traction risks towards the edge of the lane.  Cool in, hot out with a good line is probably the best we can do.  What a great instructional image!