2004 Breva 750 ran for 130 miles, no restart after gas stop?????

[mtwillyman]

  I rode the Wyphe's 2004 Moto Guzzi Breva 750 around the hood canal today. All was grand until I stopped for gas near my house and the bike no worky worky frown emoticon I turn key on and nothing happens, then turn key off and the oil pressure and neutral lights come on and the needles sweep then it goes out. Thank god for AAA. Something is very wrong with the electronics of this thing. I cleaned and tightened the battery connections, earth ground, and every connection I could. checked all the fuses with a DMM and reseated all the relays. I'm stumped. I think the dash or ignition switch is broken, It happened 10 years ago, the dash had to be replaced. Charging the battery now and we'll see. M.I. will be seeing the olde thing soon, sorry Wyphe I'm not a magician, ha!

[oldbike54]

 Well dangit ! Of course , I am however pretty sure the wyphe didn't believe you had any magical powers before this incident 

  Dusty

[Arizona Wayne]

If the lights,dash, did it's normal routine before you hit the start button, and then nothing happened and you know the kill switch is in the 'on' position, the sidestand is up........it could just be the starter contact is getting tired(corroded).  I would try to push the start button repeatedly and see if it does start 1 of the times.   

[pikipiki]

Probably starter motor, starter switch, week battery or just possibly defective side stand/kill switch.
Have u tested for current at the starter motor?
Have u tried a bump start?

[Arizona Wayne]

Probably starter motor, starter switch, week battery or just possibly defective side stand/kill switch.
Have u tested for current at the starter motor?
Have u tried a bump start?

That reminds me, I've had the nut holding the wire to the starter vibrate? loose and then the bike acts like the battery might be weak when it isn't.

[mtwillyman]

Thanks guys. The bike did nothing with the key on, after turning the key off the neutral and oil pressure lights would come on, the gage needles would sweep, then it all would go out in the off position. I'm going to play with it today. I think the battery is good. The electrical systems on these bikes seem very fragile to me. I've maintained this bike very well, I'm stumped and none too happy right now. Have a good day all. 

[Arizona Wayne]

Thanks guys. The bike did nothing with the key on, after turning the key off the neutral and oil pressure lights would come on, the gage needles would sweep, then it all would go out in the off position. I'm going to play with it today. I think the battery is good. The electrical systems on these bikes seem very fragile to me. I've maintained this bike very well, I'm stumped and none too happy right now. Have a good day all. 

Well, you do live in humid/salty conditions.      I live in dry/arid conditions.   I suspect any of your connections could be suspect w/o dielectric grease.

[mtwillyman]

The battery Tender was steady green, so I turn the key on, and everything lights up weakly and no fuel pump sound. How the hell does the battery go south on the bike it powered for a 130 miles? I'm going to put a new battery in it and see what it does. The battery is only 4 years old and a Scorpion YTX 14AHL. All the connections look as new. Thanks again folks.

[Kiwi Dave]

I'm going to put a new battery in it and see what it does.

And do the Startus Interruptus mod at the same time, and you won't have any more issues for years.

[Muzz]

The battery Tender was steady green, so I turn the key on, and everything lights up weakly and no fuel pump sound. How the hell does the battery go south on the bike it powered for a 130 miles? I'm going to put a new battery in it and see what it does. The battery is only 4 years old and a Scorpion YTX 14AHL. All the connections look as new. Thanks again folks.

A broken post inside the battery will do that, as well as one cell that has decided to crap out. the high internal resistance fools the charger, as well as often giving a good voltage reading.  Both will give the battery electrical constipation,  won't pass a current.

[jackson]

Also, if your voltage regulator is kaput and overcharging the battery, this can happen (it happened to an Aprilia scooter that my wife owned).  The light indicator should have illuminated to let her know that something was wrong but it didn't.  After changing the battery and have it go bad again, I measured the voltage at the battery with the engine at idle.......and then running at higher rpm's and discovered that it was charging at 18.5 volts so it was frying the battery.
The light should have come on but it didn't.  (don't know why because the light did illuminate when the ignition was first turned on for an instrument check).
If you can get the bike running (by jumping it), I would check the voltage at the battery before just putting the new battery in the bike.  It should read around 12.8 at idle and just under 15 at around 3000 rpm. 

[mtwillyman]

  Still no joy. I hooked up my truck battery (truck off) and tried to start it with no luck. It turns over and I hear the fuel pump prime. I'm having it towed to M.I. I still think it's the ignition switch or dash. With the bike's battery hooked up, it has a 5 second delay after turning the key on and reluctantly lights up the dash and the needles do the sweep thing. I'm too frustrated to dick with it anymore. We'll see what happens, I'm curious and frustrated at the same time. Thank you for the various ideas.

[mtwillyman]

The Breva 750 is on a big ass flat bed on it's way to Moto International. I can't wait to see what went wrong, ha! I'll post the results for all the brave Breva 750 owners, peace.

[mtwillyman]

  The little Breva 750 lives! I learned a bit about the bike also. It needed a new battery of all things. I feel so stupid, ha ha! The dash lighting up with the key in the off position threw me off in a big way. Oh well, live and learn Thanks to the fine folks at Moto International also. I've never had a battery fail me like that in all my years of riding, wow. Hope this helps someone in the future, peace.

[rocker59]

Good news! 

[cruzziguzzi]

I'd have gone straight to battery condition after you did those common sense checks.

Easy enough for me to say now, but point of fact - the alarming regularity of this sort of occurrence these last lotta-few years has led me to buy at least 4 ('round here somewhere...) load testers. The hand helds are dirt cheap now and if I pick up jumper cables/packs to attend to a battery - I take along one of the load tester as well.


Todd.

[Kiwi_Roy]

You already have a built in load tester, the starter or headlights.

Measure the battery Voltage right on the battery posts (not on the bolts or lugs) while you try to start.
Assuming you have >12.5 to start with If the battery is buggered it will drop below 9 Volts.
If it stays above 12 but still no start measure it across the wires, between negative and ground, between the starter and ground until you find where the Voltage is going.
If the starter fails to engage with good Voltage measure between the solenoid trigger wire and ground.

[cruzziguzzi]

You already have a built in load tester, the starter or headlights.

Not really - perhaps a volt meter of sorts but a battery can return a reading of a solid 12-14 volts, behave somewhat like a healthy batt and still not support the load of the starter.

Todd.

[mtwillyman]

I got tunnel vision because of the dash. A lesson learned for me indeed. I've never had a battery just go tits up like this. Thanks for the wisdom fellas.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Not really - perhaps a volt meter of sorts but a battery can return a reading of a solid 12-14 volts, behave somewhat like a healthy batt and still not support the load of the starter.

Todd.

That's what I'm saying, the Voltage while cranking with the load of the starter is a good indication.
A battery load tester just puts a heavy load on the battery (like the starter) while measuring the Voltage.

What I was trying to point out, if you measure the battery Voltage right at the posts while trying to crank and it stays above 10 with no cranking it's not the battery.

I'm not saying a load tester is not a good thing but most of the ones I have see for sale are designed for much larger car batteries and not much use for a small bike battery.
Out of curiosity do you know what amperage your load tester draws?
Brand / model?

[cruzziguzzi]

That's what I'm saying, the Voltage while cranking with the load of the starter is a good indication.
A battery load tester just puts a heavy load on the battery (like the starter) while measuring the Voltage.

What I was trying to point out, if you measure the battery Voltage right at the posts while trying to crank and it stays above 10 with no cranking it's not the battery.

I'm not saying a load tester is not a good thing but most of the ones I have see for sale are designed for much larger car batteries and not much use for a small bike battery.
Out of curiosity do you know what amperage your load tester draws?
Brand / model?

Got it... All things considered, with knowledge that a batt can behave like a schizo (was gonna say bi-polar but why add confusion?) the symptoms can return the same interpretation as a "bad" reading on a load tester.

For mine: The closest one to-hand, which represents 2 (maybe three, they seem to migrate independently and are rarely seen together) of mine is a "Blue-Point" ya2612b. Simple read, single function and made in America... Whatever that means these days.

I got it from my Snap-On guy after suggestions from my Interstate Battery guy. Can't find info on the "draw" but it is somehow "intuitive" in that one needs not enter battery type or size to use it. Somehow also knows 6 or 12 volts.

One of my others is an Sun monster from a complete vintage diagnostic array I got from an estate sale. That takes some fiddling and can be set up to read poorly.

Todd.