Need guidance on used purchase Winner is! Now with PICS.

[blackcat]

I had been considering a slightly used 2014 Subaru Outback 3.6R with low miles and all the bells and whistles but at $35,000 including tax I stopped myself. It just seems like a lot of money for a Subaru.

[Stormtruck2]

Thank you to everyone for all the truly informative information.    On our trip back from the Mo-Kan we swept the Des Moine area dealers.  Please understand I am still trying to get my bride to commit to a class of vehicle.  We looked at  Highlanders, Sequoias, Armadas, Durganos, Tiguans, MDX, Tahoes/Yukons, Expeditions, and Explorers.  She will not commit to the Crossover/Small or normal SUV class size.  The one she really liked was a 2016 Pearl White Escalade.  I got her to look at the price tag $86,000, she said it made the Armada Premium Reserve at $56,000 look like a bargain. I have bought very nice homes for that price difference!!   I think she is leaning toward the Durango Citadel, but my worry is dependability. Found a 14 with 23,000 miles which I think I can get for 25-28,000. I'm leaning towards the Armada Premium Reserve, but I can only get it new, not used. Yukon/Tahoe are in the running.  We will be trudging out again tomorrow to view more vehicles. I'm torn between used and new, leasing is not an option. The difference between new and a 1-2 year old vehicle with 15-25,000 miles ain't really all that large. Insurance wise there is no difference.

[Kev m]

Here's my take.

The JD powers and most of the CR reports are faulted by the surveying methods or parameters.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if trends weren't generally true.

Thing is, what are the actual trends.

Does a Chrysler break more often than a BMW?

And when/if it does, well does it cost more or less to fix it?

I suspect stupid problems and complaints with say the Bluetooth or voice commands may drop a brand on the list. But should that shit be treated the same as powertrain failures?

We've got a Jeep GC (2012), same platform as the Durango.

We love it. It's been tough and capable, and reliable.

I suspect if it does break by 100k miles it will cost less to fix than our Mini Cooper did at that point.

Me, I'll buy new and buy whatever the Frick that blows my hair back and not worry about it. They all last much longer than their predecessors, well at least the chassis and drivetrain. The ancillary crap, well, let's say I prefer to take it easy on that stuff.

I'm gonna buy a second Jeep soon. Cause it's what I want and cause this one has been perfect where it is important.

[Stormtruck2]

Thanks Kev for the input.  I tend to buy and hold.  My last new truck was a 1999 F-250 Super Duty, now has 205,000 miles on it.  Just pumped $2,000 into her to get her back up to snuff. My newest and most recent purchase was a 2009 Hyundai Santa Fe GLE, now has 130,000 miles on it. Going into the shop tomorrow  for about $2,000 of maintenance, (R/R timing belt, water pump, trans, transfer case, brake fluids, spark plugs, D/R interior lights and check engine light relating to faulty data from the fuel level sensor)  I love cars, but hating buying them almost as much as I hate paying for them. With our annual mileages, leasing is not an option at all either.   

[Gary]

I've owned 50+ cars since I started driving and the main difference I've found in them is the driving experience and satisfaction of ownership. I don't think I've ever really owned a lemon, nor a car that was uncharacteristicall y costly to maintain. I mean I have owned some some really funky cars, like a Fiat 850 that was so rusted out that I had to pick up some sheet metal from an HVAC contractor to replace the floorboard as the seat had nothing to attach to or a Saab Monte Carlo that I had to pack the transmission in a plastic garbage can and send on a bus to Atlanta to get rebuilt. My Porsche 928S4, which I owned for 6 years was expensive to maintain, but no more than I budgeted for and certainly cheaper than buying a new car. For the most part, most of my purchases have fallen within expectations. I do prefer the driving experience of German cars. I've owned Audi, BMW, Porsche, and several VW's including one of the original GTI's which was very satisfying to own.

I just recently bought my first Mercedes, a GLK350 4matic. I could have bought a year old Suburu Forester for what I paid for the 4 year old Merc. I expect the Merc to be more expensive to own, but it is so much more car than the Subie. I am will to pay the price of admission. I still drive because I enjoy it.

[Don Ivey]

I had been considering a slightly used 2014 Subaru Outback 3.6R with low miles and all the bells and whistles but at $35,000 including tax I stopped myself. It just seems like a lot of money for a Subaru.

From my experience (two 3.6R's), you will not be disappointed.  These are the best all round vehicles we have ever owned, and though they don't have the cachet of the German stuff, they make up for it in reliability and "do anything" attitude.  And the newest have enough safety and connectivity functionality to satisfy anyone (actually too much for me). 

 

[blackcat]

From my experience (two 3.6R's), you will not be disappointed.  These are the best all round vehicles we have ever owned, and though they don't have the cachet of the German stuff, they make up for it in reliability and "do anything" attitude.  And the newest have enough safety and connectivity functionality to satisfy anyone (actually too much for me). 

 

Don, I waited too long on that 2014 and it's gone. Going to look at a 2011 3.6R with 114,000 miles today and I know people say that isn't a lot of miles but it is an issue for me unless it is in great shape.  Do you have the non-CVT transmission? The 2014 I drove had the eyesight,etc. functions which seemed annoying but I did some reading and that seems to be a worthwhile addition.  My plan was to just keep this vehicle for a year or two until VW brings over the AllTrack but their new problems are of concern so the Subaru might be a long term car.

[rboe]

From what little I know, the Armada is to be avoided at all costs. The least reliable beast Nissan makes. For some reason they have had issues with it and have not been able to fix them (but my info is about three years old). truedelta.com can help except for the newest year where they don't have enough data points to show results.

I am shocked that $35,000 seems to be the "normal" for your average well appointed car. Nothing too fancy, but not a rental either. It's crazy.

[LowRyter]

speaking of German diesels, it looks like VW has stepped into it.  They've bogguss-ed up the ECU diagnostics to hide huge EPA emissions violations. 

Looks like criminal fraud.  VW stock down 20%.  I wonder what happens to cars on the road?  I wonder if they've done the same to its Euro cars?

[blackcat]

From what I read VW will have to de-tune the cars to make up the loss but I haven't read what it would do to the gas mileage on the diesel vehicles. Guessing it can't be good. Incredibly stupid move on their part.

[LowRyter]

From what I read VW will have to de-tune the cars to make up the loss but I haven't read what it would do to the gas mileage on the diesel vehicles. Guessing it can't be good. Incredibly stupid move on their part.

sounds like a HUGE class action lawsuit. 

[rocker59]

From what I read VW will have to de-tune the cars to make up the loss but I haven't read what it would do to the gas mileage on the diesel vehicles. Guessing it can't be good. Incredibly stupid move on their part.

Well, if they have to turn them down to meet emissions, then economy might go up.  But, power would go down.

I'm thinking the power loss, if brought into EPA spec, is where the big pisser would be for those who are driving them.

[blackcat]

Well, if they have to turn them down to meet emissions, then economy might go up.  But, power would go down.

I'm thinking the power loss, if brought into EPA spec, is where the big pisser would be for those who are driving them.

"...early this month, Volkswagen executives finally made a startling admission: The diesels it sold in the United States used software deliberately designed to cheat on the tests.

The company was evidently concerned that actually meeting the federal emissions standards would degrade the power of the diesels, which it marketed as comparable in performance to gasoline engines. Meeting the standard would also undercut the fuel efficiency that is one of a diesel’s main selling points."

Nope, less power and less gas mileage.

[oldbike54]

 WOW ! And I know two people that have purchased VW diesels in the last year .

  Dusty

[rocker59]

Nope, less power and less gas mileage.

What a mess!

[LowRyter]

I was kicking around getting a VW diesel when I got the Honda.

I just didn't want to risk the reliability and maintainability costs. 

[rocker59]

WOW ! And I know two people that have purchased VW diesels in the last year .

  Dusty

I drove a 2010 Sportwagon TDI.  I really liked it.  I wouldn't like it so much with less power and poorer economy.

That would make a Prius V more attractive, if a person was looking for that sort of car.

I've resigned myself, though, to buying used gas guzzlers and paying the oil company rather than the car company !!!   

[blackcat]

I was waiting for VW to bring over the AllTrack which is a diesel(along with gas) version of the Subaru Outback.  This news makes that car less attractive but will see.

Yes, I test rode a 2015 Sportwagon TDI and I liked it, just wanted AWD and I don't need a big vehicle to tow big stuff. Just a trailer with one bike.

[BRIO]

Google VW HPFP. That should curb your TDI appetite real fast. I owned a 2012 VW Golf TDI loved the car but had it in the shop three times in 6 moths for different reasons.

If you want a German car without the associated cost but with outstanding reliability and AWD id suggest the Buick Regal. That's my daily driver and it's been flawless.

[Kentktk]

Here's my take.

The JD powers and most of the CR reports are faulted by the surveying methods or parameters.

I suspect stupid problems and complaints with say the Bluetooth or voice commands may drop a brand on the list. But should that shit be treated the same as powertrain failures?

No, but it does, you are exactly correct sir!

[Stormtruck2]

Another day of driving vehicles, another day without any real clues as to what Lorraine really wants.  Today we drove the Toyota Highlander, (Impressive) Nissan Armada (Great ride, tech stale), and the Nissan Pathfinder (nice).  The best ride of all the vehicles we have driven is the Armada.  But no blind spot indicator. That drops it from the list.  BSIS is mandatory for Lorraine due to her worsening neck problems. The Highlander was very well stocked with tech, and a good ride.  We looked at the Limited Platinum.  The Pathfinder as nice, but did not ride as well as the others.  Lorraine really likes the Durango,  http://www.jungemazda.com/used-inventory/index.htm?listingConfigId=auto-used&compositeType=&year=&make=Dodge&bodyStyle=&odometer=&internetPrice=&start=0&sort=&facetbrowse=true&searchLinkText=SEARCH&showFacetCounts=true&showRadius=false&showSubmit=true&showSelections=true  but this Flex http://www.lynchfordchevrolet.com/used-Mt+Vernon-2014-Ford-Flex-Limited-2FMGK5D8XEBD08672  seems to be a better buy, and better vehicle.  The Flex is better equipped, especially for the money being asked. The important question is at what price can they be bought.  The search goes on  Thanks again to all who have pitched in here with advice, opinions, and facts.  It is all greatly appreciated.

[Stormtruck2]

2014 Dodge Durango RT 17,000 miles 5.7 Hemi fully loaded.  Every option you can imagine. A true Chrysler executive car. Tow package, Technology package, Comfort package etc.  Stickered for $52,000+, got it for much much less, with warrenty. Pics to follw, can't post them on my phone.  Black on black on black.  Imagine top Citadel package us the RT package.

[Rich A]

I bought a Forester a few years ago, have 30K on it and have only had routine maintenance done on it. I thought about getting a Jeep, but they had just come out with a 9-speed gearbox and one of the reviews I read said that it is a complex vehicle. The repair records for the Jeeps haven't been confidence inspiring, but many people who have them really like 'em.

Interestingly, the Subie has a CVT tranny and now when I drive a vehicle with an auto that shifts between gears it seems clunky.

Rich A

[Stormtruck2]

This RT has the 8 speed. It has bumper to bumper for another 18,000 miles, and powertrain for another 83,000 miles. Shifts extremely smoothly.

[Lannis]

This RT has the 8 speed. It has bumper to bumper for another 18,000 miles, and powertrain for another 83,000 miles. Shifts extremely smoothly.

It had better have 8 speeds and a massive warranty.   I only paid $40,000 for my first house on 3 acres of land!

Lannis

[charlie b]

Yep, and my parents paid $19k for a 2400sq ft three level home back in the 60's.  LOL

Hope your wife likes the Dodge.  I like mine (but it's a little bigger :)  ).

Watch the service dept.  The last two Dodge places I've been to have recommended unnecessary services on almost every visit.  First clue was recommending changing the brake fluid when the truck was three months old.  I thought that was just an error.  Every visit after that they wanted to change brake fluid, power steering fluid, auto trans fluid and do an alignment.

[rocker59]

2014 Dodge Durango RT 17,000 miles 5.7 Hemi fully loaded.  Every option you can imagine. A true Chrysler executive car. Tow package, Technology package, Comfort package etc.  Stickered for $52,000+, got it for much much less, with warrenty. Pics to follw, can't post them on my phone.  Black on black on black.  Imagine top Citadel package us the RT package.

That'll be a sweet ride!!! 

[Kev m]

Cool, enjoy. Very similar platform to our Jeep GC.

I bought a Forester a few years ago, have 30K on it and have only had routine maintenance done on it. I thought about getting a Jeep, but they had just come out with a 9-speed gearbox and one of the reviews I read said that it is a complex vehicle. The repair records for the Jeeps haven't been confidence inspiring, but many people who have them really like 'em.

Interestingly, the Subie has a CVT tranny and now when I drive a vehicle with an auto that shifts between gears it seems clunky.

Rich A

If I listened to reports on the internet I'd never by another Guzzi (or never have bought any Harleys) and I don't regret any of them.

The three Jeeps I've had were awesome, not perfect, but awesome.

I like my Subarus too.

[Stormtruck2]

It had better have 8 speeds and a massive warranty.   I only paid $40,000 for my first house on 3 acres of land!

Lannis

I agree. It was a bitch to write out the check. Got it for 32,200, so not too bad I felt. But I still remember buying a house for less, much less. Lol

[Don Ivey]

Don, I waited too long on that 2014 and it's gone. Going to look at a 2011 3.6R with 114,000 miles today and I know people say that isn't a lot of miles but it is an issue for me unless it is in great shape.  Do you have the non-CVT transmission? The 2014 I drove had the eyesight,etc. functions which seemed annoying but I did some reading and that seems to be a worthwhile addition.  My plan was to just keep this vehicle for a year or two until VW brings over the AllTrack but their new problems are of concern so the Subaru might be a long term car.

Cat, we just traded an '11 3.6 for a '16 3.6, and I'll have to say I liked the '11 better in some ways.  It was simpler, did everything we need, and was stone
reliable.  The '16 has the same basic feel, but there are so many electronic nannies with attendant beeps every time you turn around, that it can be annoying.  One thing i really do like is the adaptive cruise control, though.  The '16 has CVT and I have no issues with it, smooth and unobtrusive, and it
does get better gas mileage.  Overall, the 3.6R is a lot of vehicle for the money, even though they are approaching $40K.  We plan to keep it for a long time.  As we get older, I think the nannies might be a lifesaver (literally).