Water jetting: costs?

[NCAmother]

I have a very nice speedometer/tach single gauge.  I need to build (or have build) a dash mounting piece.  The dash I've designed looks like a pretty easy project

[rodekyll]

What did you want to discuss?



 

[NCAmother]

What did you want to discuss?



 

I'm just curious about the cost to cut into 1/3 x 12 x10 aluminum. It connects to the top triple.  It would be nice if the gauge part was bent like 45degrees  Are you offering me your services, can you email me direct:  nathanappel@gmail.com

[rodekyll]

No, I don't have a waterjet cutter.  I did however work for FLOW SYSTEMS, a major mfgr of waterjet equipment.  That being said, I use a sawzall and angle grinder for most of my fabrication.  Unless this is a really complex design, drawing it onto the metal and hand cutting/finish sanding the shape might be as good as the hi-tek methods.

So you're looking for a jobber to cut the panel.  The cost for that could be all over the board.  The actual cut could be as long as .5 hour.  Set up time (do you have the computer file built?) varies, and like most things, this is the expensive portion.  Computer controlled or template cutting will be better than freehand, and you can reduce the cost significantly by having that set up before going to the shop.

EDM cutting is another alternative.

If you've really got something there, try to drum up some interest in the rank and file for additional copies.  The more you can have made the less the cost per unit.  Remember that the jobbers that invest in this kind of equipment want to keep it busy, and volume work is how they do that.  You may have trouble finding someone to do a one-off, tiny job.  When I had a camshaft EDM'd for the Convert pump hex drive shaft, my search for a shop that would touch it took me to FL, and the cost for a 6mm hex x 30mm deep blind hole was $130 (plus shipping and a 6-week turnaround). 

[kirb]

I use a laser cutter for my Stelvio rear racks and now tool tube mount made out of 12ga brushed stainless. They form the edges of the rack to 30 degrees.
rack: http://stelviontx.blogspot.com/2013/04/rear-rack-installation.html
tube: http://stelviontx.blogspot.com/2015/10/large-tool-tube-mount.html

I pay my CAD guy $20 on the side for him to knock out a drawing over lunch. My laser cutter charges me about $100 per prototype one-off. It's just as cheap to run 5 as it does 1, so I usually do a few at a shot if I know it will work. The more stuff I can run at the same time will help lower costs.

I've done some protos for others. A drawing is made, emailed to end user, they mark it up, we fix it, laser cutter burns it. Usually takes about a 1-2 weeks to turn it around.

[rodekyll]

$100 is quite reasonable for any pre-planned one-off/prototype.  Laser cutting should also do a good job.

I do a lot of custom work with a local machinist.  He loves making the machines go, but he HATES having to plan the job.  He wants diagrams and files with circles and arrows and 8x10 glossy photos or he starts charging by the hour + 'whiner fees' + I have to listen to him bitch about it.  The lesson learned is the more I make life easier for the jobber the better for the job and everyone involved.

[rbm]

Create your design in Google Sketchup, output to a .stl file, and use a 3D printing prototype service like Thingverse or Shapeways to get your dash.

[canuguzzi]

For something like that, drill press, good dremel with the good bits, a belt sander and random orbital, hand drill and files.

You'll have what you want by the time you find a guy, talk about it, get one made, change it and make another and then decide you want it a different way.

[ridingron]

Do you have the facility and skills to do it yourself?

Make it out of aluminum. Use a hole saw for the opening if it round or as suggested a sawzall. It is amazing what can be done with a Dremel  and/or a couple sharp files.

[charlie b]

It takes me longer to set up a small job like that for the laser than it does to cut it with hand tools.

But, if you want to do it go for it.  Do the CAD file in the format the cutter uses.  Talk to him about material.  Sometimes he will have some 'free space' on a job and can cut that one during the other job.  If it is a one time setup expect a fee for it (our setup fees can be more than the job itself).

charlie
PS no my laser will not do aluminum, only wood  :)

[Orange Guzzi]

No, I don't have a waterjet cutter.  I did however work for FLOW SYSTEMS, a major mfgr of waterjet equipment.  That being said, I use a sawzall and angle grinder for most of my fabrication.  Unless this is a really complex design, drawing it onto the metal and hand cutting/finish sanding the shape might be as good as the hi-tek methods.

So you're looking for a jobber to cut the panel.  The cost for that could be all over the board.  The actual cut could be as long as .5 hour.  Set up time (do you have the computer file built?) varies, and like most things, this is the expensive portion.  Computer controlled or template cutting will be better than freehand, and you can reduce the cost significantly by having that set up before going to the shop.

EDM cutting is another alternative.

If you've really got something there, try to drum up some interest in the rank and file for additional copies.  The more you can have made the less the cost per unit.  Remember that the jobbers that invest in this kind of equipment want to keep it busy, and volume work is how they do that.  You may have trouble finding someone to do a one-off, tiny job.  When I had a camshaft EDM'd for the Convert pump hex drive shaft, my search for a shop that would touch it took me to FL, and the cost for a 6mm hex x 30mm deep blind hole was $130 (plus shipping and a 6-week turnaround).

Where did you work with Flow?  I spent many days in their Jeffersonville/Clarksville, IN shop.  I was a plant manager for a metal fabrication shop building tanks and many of the metal fabricated frames.  I watch the water jet concept go from the basic x-y concept to three dimensional.  Amazing what water will cut.  Even paper. 

[rodekyll]

I worked for them in the Kent Valley (south of Seattle).  They were conveniently located just down the street from Boeing Surplus.   

We put together the unit that cut baby Jessica out of the well in Texas.  I wrote the on-the-fly operation manual for the one-off cutter and we sent it and an assembly/operation team to do the operation.  We also cut the marching surface for the parade grounds on the DC campus.  It's a huge map of the USA with each state cut from a slab of their own country rock.  When assembled, it's so precisely cut that grass doesn't grow in the cracks.  My nephew stood on it to receive his CPO regalia last year.

Mostly we made x-y for places like Basin Robbins and Butterfingers (they cut ice cream and candy with waterjets), and computer-controlled x-y-z was under development while I was there.  We had an X-Y-Z model with a huge tank full of stainless steel ball bearings to attenuate the water stream, which could cut a person in half at 5'.  It lived in its own room on account of the 200Db it produced rattling those ball bearings around with 250,000# of pressure through an 0.10 sapphire orifice.

[Kentktk]

We put together the unit that cut baby Jessica out of the well in Texas.  I wrote the on-the-fly operation manual for the one-off cutter and we sent it and an a.  It lived in its own room on account of the 200Db it produced rattling those ball bearings around with 250,000# of pressure through an 0.10 sapphire orifice.

Interesting since the Krakatoa Volcano produced 188db and a 1 ton TNT bomb produces 210db. So really?
http://listverse.com/2007/11/30/top-10-loudest-noises/

[rodekyll]

There are lots of true facts that you can't comprehend, Kent.  You prove that here every time to log in.  Why don't you sit next to one in operation for a few minutes and tell me how loud it isn't?   

You really feel the need to attempt busting my chops at every remote opportunity, don't you?  It's getting old, Kent.  It really, f***ing is.  You're one complaint away from losing your chair here.  Don't continue to push it.

Our safety standards and practices had us isolate, insulate, and placard the tub-attenuated, 3-axis abrasivejet cutter for 200Db.  The noise of the bare jet of water idling at those pressures and orifice size was in excess of 140Db.  At the pressures we operated, liquids are compressible and the speed of sound can be exceeded continuously.  So you can imagine the added noise of the waterjet abrading the item being cut and of the ball bearings thrashing in the tank from the impact of many tons of very focused force.  The agitation of the ball bearings was so violent that the 4x4x8' tank of stainless balls were pulverized in a few hours of operation. 

No, I did not personally test for noise.  I didn't personally check to verify the stream is lethal at 5' either, but I wrote the manual with the specs I was given.  The equipment was not in the same room as the operations panel due to the noise problem, and the machine room was checked and locked out before operation.  Even from the next room, the control booth operator wore additional ear protection.

[Kiwi_Roy]

For cutting aluminum by hand nothing beats a plain old coping saw, it's easy to cut an inside radius 1/2" diameter.

[Kentktk]

There are lots of true facts that you can't comprehend, Kent.  You prove that here every time to log in.  Why don't you sit next to one in operation for a few minutes and tell me how loud it isn't?   

You really feel the need to attempt busting my chops at every remote opportunity, don't you?  It's getting old, Kent.  It really, f***ing is.  You're one complaint away from losing your chair here.  Don't continue to push it.

Our safety standards and practices had us isolate, insulate, and placard the tub-attenuated, 3-axis abrasivejet cutter for 200Db.  The noise of the bare jet of water idling at those pressures and orifice size was in excess of 140Db.  At the pressures we operated, liquids are compressible and the speed of sound can be exceeded continuously.  So you can imagine the added noise of the waterjet abrading the item being cut and of the ball bearings thrashing in the tank from the impact of many tons of very focused force.  The agitation of the ball bearings was so violent that the 4x4x8' tank of stainless balls were pulverized in a few hours of operation. 

No, I did not personally test for noise.  I didn't personally check to verify the stream is lethal at 5' either, but I wrote the manual with the specs I was given.  The equipment was not in the same room as the operations panel due to the noise problem, and the machine room was checked and locked out before operation.  Even from the next room, the control booth operator wore additional ear protection.

I know they`re loud, but to exaggerate the facts and then be pissed off about getting your chops busted is rather weak.

[rodekyll]

This is a personal attack.  I'll repeat that you need to back off.  I won't say it again.