New to me Breva - snatchy

[tris]

There now lives in my garage a 05 Breva 1100 (24k miles) that I picked up on Tuesday

The ride home was -  shall we say "interesting" Moving from the Cali with a steering damper to the Breva without on caused some unexpected direction changes until I got my eye in 

Still I suspect that once I get the controls adjusted just right its going to be a very good bike.

However, the sudden low throttle pick up (negotiating a tight roundabout for example) was verging on dangerous

I know there's loads written about this issue and the cure looks like Guzidiag and a Beetle map

However, until I get that all in place is there anything basic that can/should be done or checked to mitigate this other than just riding it and learning its foibles?

Cheers

[Kev m]

Drag a brake, slip the clutch and keep the revs up?

I dunno, I never had either complaint you mentioned. Must be differences in the actual bikes, or not likely just differences in expectations.

[tris]

Thinking some more

a) I wonder if the front tyre pressure is right
b) Throttle Bodies balanced??

[Graham UK]

It's certainly very different from the Cali, and learning to rev it is important, not just to keep things smooth, but also to avoid wear and tear.  I even read on a Harley forum someone urging people to run at 3.5k to 4.5k instead of 2.5k to 3.5k, simply to reduce wear on the main bearings.

Minimising slack in the throttle cables helps a lot, although, much to my embarrassment, I let my dealer handle that, as I don't want to mess up the throttle settings.

Having had my Breva for a couple of years now, I must admit that I've got used to it and adapted to it. 

[Graham UK]

"I must admit that I've got used to it and adapted to it." - that doesn't quite hit the mark; what I mean is, "I no longer notice the snatchiness, and over time I have so fully fallen in love with this bike that I struggle to imagine a bike that could be better." 

[rdbandkab]

My 06 was smooth..   I would try the TB balance as suggested.

I'm not even sure there's a reworked map for an 05.   

[Dean Rose]

It's just different. I ride both, a '02 EV and a '06 1100 Breva. They are just different. Get used to the bike.


Dean

[Kev m]

Graham makes a lot of good points.

But warning Harley Mythos content:

I even read on a Harley forum someone urging people to run at 3.5k to 4.5k instead of 2.5k to 3.5k, simply to reduce wear on the main bearings.

Sadly I've observed one major problem with the Harley community. They're group-think stupid.

I think it's a factor of the BS machismo that is associated with the brand (that the brand attracts and fosters).

So many new Harley riders feel pressure to act like old Harley riders and pretend like they are experts so much so that the community is full of complete and utter BS that is passed along from moron-to-moron.

EXAMPLE:

A motor running in its designed powerband and not lugging from too high a load at too low an rpm/too high a gear isn't going to produce any "wear" on the main bearings.

Harley BT's are designed to run LOW in the powerband. A typical Twin Cam (TC) motor hits the rev limiter in the mid 5k rpm range. It may make its PEAK hp at about 5k, but it is making within maybe 6 hp of that by 3500 rpm (meaning it's making 90% of its hp BY 3500 rpm, there's no reason to be running it higher). Even more telling are the torque curves which PEAK by about 2800 rpm, but the dyno is already reading within 8 ft. lbs. of that (meaning again already making 90% of its PEAK torque) by 2000 rpm when the dyno starts to register.

So in the 2.0-3.5k range a Harley Big Twin is making 90% of its HP and 90% of its torque. The only reason to run it ANY faster than that is briefly to pass someone.

Now SPORTSTERS are a different beast. Sportys are designed to run higher in the powerhead. A typical rubbermount EVO motor (and the solidmounts are similar) doesn't hit the rev limiter till 6k stock or just shy of 7k with a reflash . It makes its PEAK HP at almost 6k, but will continue to make about the same all the way to the rev limiter when it is set higher. Similarly its peak TORQUE occurs around 4-4.5k. and though it starts to drop off between 5-6k rpm, even by 6k it is still making 80% of its peak torque.

So SPORTSTERS are specifically designed to run (and run better) in the 3.0-4.5k range.


Now with that myth cleared up - anyone who rides a Harley (especially a BT) and attempts to run a Guzzi at the same rpms TENDS to lug the crap out of it until they realize they are different beasts (though the Sporty is less different from a Guzzi than a BT).

I remember when I went to buy my first Guzzi (my 00 Jackal). The dealer put me on it and listened/watched as I pulled away. He specifically remarked when I got back that knowing my Harley background he had been apprehensive until he heard me pull away and realized I was fine (not lugging it).

[tris]

It's just different. I ride both, a '02 EV and a '06 1100 Breva. They are just different. Get used to the bike.


Dean

A fair point I did wonder that - I'll get some miles under my belt before I touch anything

[Waltr]

make sure the throttle cables are adjusted so bike returns to idle quickly but not a lot of free play.  This is usually more important than throttle body balance from what you are describing. Unless of course the PO did not really booger up the balance really bag.  If there is a map you should be set.

[Graham UK]

Thanks for putting me right on Harleys, Kev m; that's how we learn.

[Lannis]

It's just different. I ride both, a '02 EV and a '06 1100 Breva. They are just different. Get used to the bike.


Dean

I was out riding the other day on my Stelvio with a guy with a Yamaha FZ09; he's about the same size and weight as me and had made some suspension mods to optimize it.   

We were on very crooked, narrow, hilly back roads (Galts Mill Road in Amherst County VA if anyone wants to see it); he stopped and offered to switch bikes.

We did, he took off slowly in the lead on my Stelvio.   I swear I almost crashed his bike 3 times before I got it under control.   If I hadn't known that it was really nice, good-handling bike, I would have said that something on it was broken.   

I was fighting to make it go straight, then fighting to make it go around a turn.   Road patches and pavement variations seemed to generate twitches that sent my heart into my mouth.   Luckily that 850cc triple is never in the wrong gear, always has power, or I'd have been stalling it coming out of turns.

HE rides it at speeds I can't (or don't want to) keep up with on my Stelvio - for this first ride I was wobbling around on it like a Marx Big Wheel.

I'm sure that if I owned that Yamaha I'd very soon be cut-n-thrusting around the twisties like a good 'un, but it seems that the older I get, the harder it is for me to acclimatize myself to a new bike.    A good 250 mile day soon has me sorted out, though ....

Lannis 

[MGPilot]

We don't get to see as many hp vs. torque graphs, but I was always taught that for any particular engine, look at the spot where the torque & hp curves cross. That's the sweet spot for that engine.

[Kev m]

Thanks for putting me right on Harleys, Kev m; that's how we learn.

I'm sure you'd do the same for me on Guzzis (there's still too much I don't know).

It's more a cautionary tale of listening to the average Harley guy. 

Cheers.

[Lannis]

We don't get to see as many hp vs. torque graphs, but I was always taught that for any particular engine, look at the spot where the torque & hp curves cross. That's the sweet spot for that engine.

Because of how horsepower and torque are defined in our system of units, the "horsepower" graph and "torque" graph ALWAYS cross at 5252 RPM, for any engine .....

Lannis

[Kev m]

Because of how horsepower and torque are defined in our system of units, the "horsepower" graph and "torque" graph ALWAYS cross at 5252 RPM, for any engine .....

Lannis

OMG - DUH... of course... yeah, that's why it doesn't work as a universal truth.

[Kiwi Dave]

It might pay to check it has the later map installed in the ECU.  The later map (2230BA10) was introduced in 2007 and benefits the earlier models.  It certainly transformed my 2005 Breva, especially after I had removed the colostomy bag on the exhaust.

You will need Guzzidiag or someone with one to see which version you have.  I think the previous 2005 version was 2229BA10.

[tris]

SORTED the handling issue

Front Tyre 3.5 Bar should be 2.5 Bar
Rear Tyre 3.2 Bar should be 2.8 Bar 


Cheers KD I'll check that out - I had noticed that it idles at 1000 rpm and was wondering if that was too slow?

I guess I can check the throttle body balance provide I don't change anything?

[Arizona Wayne]

I was out riding the other day on my Stelvio with a guy with a Yamaha FZ09; he's about the same size and weight as me and had made some suspension mods to optimize it.   

We were on very crooked, narrow, hilly back roads (Galts Mill Road in Amherst County VA if anyone wants to see it); he stopped and offered to switch bikes.

We did, he took off slowly in the lead on my Stelvio.   I swear I almost crashed his bike 3 times before I got it under control.   If I hadn't known that it was really nice, good-handling bike, I would have said that something on it was broken.   

I was fighting to make it go straight, then fighting to make it go around a turn.   Road patches and pavement variations seemed to generate twitches that sent my heart into my mouth.   Luckily that 850cc triple is never in the wrong gear, always has power, or I'd have been stalling it coming out of turns.

HE rides it at speeds I can't (or don't want to) keep up with on my Stelvio - for this first ride I was wobbling around on it like a Marx Big Wheel.

I'm sure that if I owned that Yamaha I'd very soon be cut-n-thrusting around the twisties like a good 'un, but it seems that the older I get, the harder it is for me to acclimatize myself to a new bike.    A good 250 mile day soon has me sorted out, though ....

Lannis

I can usually adapt pretty soon from 1 bike to another in basics, but going from my bikes to this `77 stock Convert. I acquired 2 months ago............was a new challenge !!    Even tho I had owned a `80 Convert. prior with shorter handlebars, this 1 with original buckaroo bars didn't feel anything like my earlier Convert.  In fact on this `77 I felt totally removed from what was going on underneath me, the opposite of what I'm used to.  I felt like a fish out of water.     It took me awhile  to feel confident enough to ride it up a ramp into my trailer.