14' V7 stone no spark no start

[excess]

Hello,
First post to the forum. I did some google searching on my issue and it led me here. I wasn't able to find my solution so I'm hoping someone may be able to help.
I hope this is the right spot on the forum.

About the Bike
2014 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone
bought with 2300 miles now has 2411 miles.
The only apparent modifications are mistral exhaust and tail tidy. When it ran it ran well so I assume fuel mapping was done.

About the problem.
I live in South Dakota and bought the bike online from a used bike dealership in FT. Collins, CO. I had a friend pick it up and test ride it. He had no issues and stored it in his garage for me for a couple of weeks.
I picked the bike up and went for a short test ride before loading it on the trailer. It was a little hard starting I think i had to try 3 times maybe 20 seconds total to start it. I didn't think much of it.
I got it home and rode it a few times for a total of just over 100 miles. Each time it seemed a little harder to start but once it started ran great no surging, no sputtering, no dieing. It actually ran very well I thought. Now for the last week it wont start at all. Turns over and over and over :) but wont start. Checked kill switch and kickstand killswitch, checked fuel and fuses, then checked and have no spark.
I'm kind of stumped at that point. Could it be Crank Position Sensor? Could it be ECU? Am i missing something simple? I can, if i have to, take it to a dealership for service but its about 6 hours away so that probably wont happen until spring.

Also, to clarify, I am not placing any blame on the dealership I bought it from I have no reason to believe that they knew of any issues i'm simply giving the background.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
To be completely transparent I did post this exact question to another forum as well. Just trying to cover all the bases.
I'm a big fan of the brand this is my third Guzzi and one of two I currently own. I just usually lurk around the forums and don't post much.

Austin

[elvisboy77]

What a bummer!  I am sure others will chime in but think that I have read here that cracking the throttle open slightly can help with cold starts.

Another possibility is the battery is low?  I would charge it over night just to be sure.

Good luck, these are great bikes from what I read,

[oldbike54]

 Welcome Austin , and yes you have come to the right spot . Are both sides dead ? The V7 experts will be along shortly .

  Dusty

[fotoguzzi]

Hello,
First post to the forum.

I hope this is the right spot on the forum.

Austin, it's the only spot, we don't sub-catagorize.. and don't want to.. Welcome.. ask any questions you have, we got answers!  we're all glad you found us..

answers to follow..(small block) guys?

[excess]

Thanks!
Yes battery is fully charged. I've been tinkering with it alot but its been on a tender.
No spark to either side.

Thanks again! and I like the forum layout :)

[oldbike54]

Thanks!
Yes battery is fully charged. I've been tinkering with it alot but its been on a tender.
No spark to either side.

Thanks again! and I like the forum layout :)

 A virtual campfire by design .

 OK did you pull the plug wires on both sides , the ends are very fragile .

  Dusty

[excess]

Yes I've pulled the plug wires from both sides (after the issue started) both wires seem to be connected correctly and securely now.
I didn't see any damage or have any issues getting them to "clamp" securely.
Thanks

Austin

[elvisboy77]

It would maybe be good to confirm the lack of spark by inserting a spark plug in the wire and hitting the start button.  You should see an arc.  Do it both sides to be sure.  If they are sparking then it is fuel

[fotoguzzi]

It would maybe be good to confirm the lack of spark by inserting a spark plug in the wire and hitting the start button while grounding to block.  You should see an arc.  Do it both sides to be sure.  If they are sparking then it is fuel

[pyoungbl]

Elvisboy beat me to it.  Also, pull the plugs and see how they look.  I'll bet that the PO installed loud mufflers but did not do anything about the mix.  Unless you have some very specific software you can't do much of anything yourself...OK, Guzzidiag may have that solved somewhat...but I'm doubtful the PO went that route.  Most independent shops won't either unless they specialize in Guzzi, like Pete R.  The other thing to watch out for is some kind of electronic spoofer in the O2 sensor circuit.  If the PO went that route you may be running super rich.  The plugs will tell that too.

Good luck
Peter Y.

[oldbike54]

It would maybe be good to confirm the lack of spark by inserting a spark plug in the wire and hitting the start button.  You should see an arc.  Do it both sides to be sure.  If they are sparking then it is fuel

 Yes , seems like the wires have an internal problem .

  Dusty

[fotoguzzi]

Just how did you check the SS switch? and kill switch..  ?

[elvisboy77]

Thanks, yes I left that very important detail out!

[mwrenn]

Cam position sensor has been known on the 2013 to 2015 bikes to fail regularly.  Easy to replace.
I carry an extra one.

[Kev m]

Cam position sensor has been known on the 2013 to 2015 bikes to fail regularly.  Easy to replace.
I carry an extra one.

Just out of curiosity, where have you heard reports of this?

How many?

Only asking because I don't recall of one ever being reported here and I'm trying to assess the risk.

[sib]

If you want to do the OP a favor, read his post carefully before offering random suggestions and diagnoses.  It CAN'T be a dead battery because the engine cranks over.  It CAN'T be the kill switch because the original symptoms were that it eventually started after cranking for a while.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Kev M,
            Will the bike crank over if the kill switch circuit is open?
Is there any indication on the dash as to the status of the various inputs?

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2013_V7_Series.gif

Are these bikes fitted with the problem plug caps?

[Kev m]

Kev M,
            Will the bike crank over if the kill switch circuit is open?
Is there any indication on the dash as to the status of the various inputs?

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2013_V7_Series.gif

Are these bikes fitted with the problem plug caps?

No, No, and No (AFAIK on that last one, but I've never heard of anyone damaging them and they look different from the 8V motor caps).

[elvisboy77]

If you want to do the OP a favor, read his post carefully before offering random suggestions and diagnoses.  It CAN'T be a dead battery because the engine cranks over.  It CAN'T be the kill switch because the original symptoms were that it eventually started after cranking for a while.

I disagree, a battery can spin the motor, but not fast enough to start it.  And the voltage can drop below the threshold for the electronics to work correctly.  The only real way to know is a load test or other diagnostics.

I also think if he has been cranking it a lot it would tend to run the battery down.

Here's hoping the OP gets it sorted quickly.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Thanks Kev,

Reading the schematic it seems as though you might be missing power on the red wire shared by the coils, injectors and some other stuff.
The Injection Load Relay (28) I suspect picks up for a second or two when you turn the key On to prime the pump then drops back out (you should hear the pump), as the bike starts to crank it should pick up again  as the ECU gets pulses from the rotation sensor. If you can find the red wire and hang a lamp from it to ground  it should light (you might not hear the pump while cranking).

The revolution sensor, I would unplug it to check continuity between the pins 1 & 2, this type of sensor is a coil wound around a magnet, they can attract filings which can effectively disable them.

Unplug the Injection Load Relay, you should see Voltage at the socket pin 5 at all times, at pin 2 with the key on.

I also wonder if you are getting the full 12 Volts at the fuses A,B & C with the key On, you can check that at the GPS connector (11)

As Elvisboy77 says, check the Voltage while cranking and get back.
If the bike has been sitting for a while the battery may be weak.
Oh, I see you charged it up but measure the cranking Voltage anyway, I think the later ECUs disable the Injection relay at low Voltage this might explain why it was getting harder to start.

[mwrenn]

Just out of curiosity, where have you heard reports of this?

How many?

Only asking because I don't recall of one ever being reported here and I'm trying to assess the risk.

There was thread about it on Guzzitech last April, I called and visited with Todd, and he told me that he has had quite a few fail on him.  Not sure how many "quite a few" is, more than one but less than ten?Anyway,  some people call it the crank position sensor, but it really reads from a tone wheel on the cam.

[excess]

Thanks for all the responses. Crazy day at work so im just catching up and trying the suggestions.
Battery voltage is good (I have not tried under load).
As far as checking kickstand and kill switch with either engaged the engine wont turn over so i assume that the engine turning over means they are "disengaging properly. Is there more i need to do to verify those? I've had kickstand safetys cause problems before (mostly offroad) but the engine never turned over when that was the issue.
One big thing I somehow forgot to mention. When i turn the key I can here a faint tick from the fuel pump but I don't here it priming at least nothing like what I hear on my griso or other FI bikes Im familiar with. Cant believe i forgot to mention that.

Kiwi_Roy
Voltage is correct at fuses. I have not checked voltage while cranking, I will. I will also check the revolution sensor and try and figure out the red wire. Can you point me to the schematic?

Thanks again

[Kiwi_Roy]

Kiwi_Roy
Voltage is correct at fuses. I have not checked voltage while cranking, I will. I will also check the revolution sensor and try and figure out the red wire. Can you point me to the schematic?

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2013_V7_Series.gif
Here you go, thanks to Carl Allison
If you can monitor the Voltage on pin 1 of the relay (28) you should see it go high for a second or two then go high again while the bike is cranking.
One way would be to pull the relay and measure 1-2 with a multimeter or lamp. (of course it won't start with the relay out)

Swap the relay into position (6) the start relay position will give it a good test.