What the V9 tells me about Moto Guzzi's future

[rocker59]

But at the same time I could care less about a Stelvio or a Norge (and honestly a Griso or Neo-LeMans too) so I don't bother reading threads about them. I certainly don't waste my time going to a thread about a Stelvio and bitching about how much I don't like it and how Guzzi is wasting their resources and how it's the end of days because it's NOT a Retro/Retro Standard/Big Block V7 etc. etc. etc.
 

Great post.  Several points I agree with.  But, this struck me the most.

I will never understand the thread shitters who click on, and take the time to read, threads about things in which they have no interest, then bitch about it.

Listening to the olde d00ds on here (who will never buy a small block of any kind) bitch about Guzzi broadening the range, really wears me out.

Really.  If it doesn't interest you, don't click it!

I don't care anything about Loops or sidecars or steel cut oats, so I stay away or only skim them as part of my moderator duties. 

Dwelling on subjects in which we have no interest is a waste of everybody's time...

[rboe]

If hp was such a big thing we'd all be driving Corvettes, Mustangs and Camero's - or Raptor's.

But we don't. Huge market for station wagons, mini vans and full sized cars as well as your Fiat 500's and such.

Same with bikes. I think Piaggio has pretty much nailed it. You want your hp and your peg scrapping holy hell bent for an early grave bike? They got 'em. Won't have the Moto Guzzi marque on it though. Want a fun standard machine that runs like a "proper" motorcycle? Looks like the V7 or V9 is your baby.

For better or worse; it looks like the Griso was the last bike with a Moto Guzzi label with any sporty pretentions. Now it would be cool if they used the 1400 motor to come up with a sport tourer/ cruiser sport to "replace" the Griso. Personally; give me a Standard with the 1400 (or smaller, the 1200 already has plenty of poop for me) with a factory option for a Don Vesco Rabid Transit knock off and I'd be one happy customer. 

[Chuck in Indiana]

I thought one of the main attributes of the V7 series was its handling and ability to punch above its weight class , the V9 appears to be an extension of those qualities .

Actually, they don't handle all that well.. stock. They have built to a price suspension. Sorry, small block fans.. I'm one also.. but it's true. The frame is fine, and the brakes are better than most.

[oldbike54]

Actually, they don't handle all that well.. stock. They have built to a price suspension. Sorry, small block fans.. I'm one also.. but it's true. The frame is fine, and the brakes are better than most.

 Yeah , friends tell me the stock suspension resembles a buckboard , but that can be fixed , right ?

  Dusty

[Dean Rose]

Great post.  Several points I agree with.  But, this struck me the most.

I will never understand the thread shitters who click on, and take the time to read, threads about things in which they have no interest, then bitch about it.

Listening to the olde d00ds on here (who will never buy a small block of any kind) bitch about Guzzi broadening the range, really wears me out.

Really.  If it doesn't interest you, don't click it!

I don't care anything about Loops or sidecars or steel cut oats, so I stay away or only skim them as part of my moderator duties. 

Dwelling on subjects in which we have no interest is a waste of everybody's time...

 :1:


Dean

[Kev m]

Actually, they don't handle all that well.. stock. They have built to a price suspension. Sorry, small block fans.. I'm one also.. but it's true. The frame is fine, and the brakes are better than most.

The problem with these posts (on both sides of the issue) is that they are all subjective.

When I SAY that my V7 handles wonderfully I mean:

1. It's light and turns quickly.
2. It leans farther than I never need.
3. It's suspension handles a "reasonable" level of road irregularities.

Jenn's Duc 696 CAN go even faster through most turns, but I almost NEVER do, because the V7 is already doing 70 through that sweeper marked 30 or 35.

Jenn's Duc does handle a bump mid-corner better than the V7, but the V7 doesn't put me into the weeds.

But Jenn's Duc is probably toward the top end of handling ability for such things.

And the V7, maybe it's more mid-to-rear of the pack of SPORT BIKEs, but for retro standards like Bonnies, and Sportys, etc. it's "Better than Average".

So it all depends on your point of view.

[jas67]

Actually, they don't handle all that well.. stock. They have built to a price suspension. Sorry, small block fans.. I'm one also.. but it's true. The frame is fine, and the brakes are better than most.

Should should have a check box on the order sheet for upgraded shocks.   Even $400 Ikons are way better.    I'd check that box, even if it was the $400 retail price, which would be nice profit for MG, as they get 'em for wholesale, and save the cost of the cheapos too.

New shocks are the first upgrade my newly purchased V7 Special is going to get.

[rocker59]

It's a matter of perspective.

Coming off of bikes with much more expensive suspensions, it's noticeable.

Chuck (me, too) has put a lot of miles on Guzzis with Ohlins bits that have been dialed-in.

I love the V7 for its light weight, standard ergos, and fun-factor.  But, its suspension really does contrast with the other Guzzis I've owned.  Its stable mate, my 1996 Sport 1100 has much better forks.  And its Marzocchi M1 forks are vintage tech.

I agree, though.  In its niche, V7 isn't bad.  I've not ridden a New Bonneville in a long time, but the early '00s examples I sampled had super-sucky suspensions, front and rear.

[jas67]

It's a matter of perspective.

Coming off of bikes with much more expensive suspensions, it's noticeable.

I agree 100%.   One of my other bikes is a Monster 796 with a Ohlins shock on it.  I just enjoy the V7 for what it is.   And, what it is, is in need of better rear shocks to save my spine.    I'm not looking to make handle as well as a modern bike, just more comfortable on rough PA roads.

[Adan]

I've been reading this V9 threads with great interest.  I'm eager to see how the ergonomics feel relative to the V7.  If it's better, then the V9 will probably be my next Guzzi.  If not, then I'll get another V7.

I came "this close" to buying back my old Griso.  Though it's charisma was still very compelling, I couldn't get past the weight.  I need something lighter, so I bought a Nine T when they when BMW was offering the $1,500 rebate.  It's a great bike, especially since I put it on a diet, and could be all the bike I need.  Except that I still want a Guzzi in my garage.

Oh, but it's hard to hear myself think over the sound of nashing teeth from riders upset about the release of the V9.  Most experienced riders -- the kind who like to post on this and similar forums -- wanted something more enervating.  Predictably, they are the ones complaining right now.  The V9 wasn't designed for them.  But I like what Guzzi has done, making a simple attractive bike for the masses.

There's the small minority of experienced riders who see a bike like the V9 as, potentially, "just right."  I might be one of those.

The suspension will need upgrading, that's a given.  On an Egyptian chariot you were more likely to die from a spear through your chest anyway, so why worry about suspension.  With the V7 you could at least lift yourself out of the seat for the bumps you know are coming.  The same stock shocks on a cruiser frames will be spine-crushers.

[Kev m]

The suspension will need upgrading, that's a given.  On an Egyptian chariot you were more likely to die from a spear through your chest anyway, so why worry about suspension.  With the V7 you could at least lift yourself out of the seat for the bumps you know are coming.  The same stock shocks on a cruiser frames will be spine-crushers.

FWIW, I can't see these ergos being any extreme than that of my Sportster, and I can lift myself out of the saddle onto the pegs no problem there too... YMMV but I wouldn't worry about it.

I also wouldn't call anything where my legs weren't almost straight with my feet way out in front of my knees a "cruiser" but I'm funny that way.

[Chuck in Indiana]

FWIW, I can't see these ergos being any extreme than that of my Sportster, and I can lift myself out of the saddle onto the pegs no problem there too... YMMV but I wouldn't worry about it.

I also wouldn't call anything where my legs weren't almost straight with my feet way out in front of my knees a "cruiser" but I'm funny that way.

Yeah, you were the guy that said the 1400 didn't have forward controls.. 

[Adan]

FWIW, I can't see these ergos being any extreme than that of my Sportster, and I can lift myself out of the saddle onto the pegs no problem there too... YMMV but I wouldn't worry about it.

I also wouldn't call anything where my legs weren't almost straight with my feet way out in front of my knees a "cruiser" but I'm funny that way.

Fair enough.  Let me put it this way.  Since I felt the strong need to upgrade the shocks on my V7 Classic, I expect to feel it even more strongly on the V9.

[Kev m]

Yeah, you were the guy that said the 1400 didn't have forward controls.. 

Like suspensions it's a matter of perspective.

TO ME there are 3-4 types of controls.

REARsets - means foot BEHIND knee, knee tilted forward/down

MIDMounts - means foot BELOW knee, knee forward and level, bent ABOUT 90 degrees give or take

FORWARDS - means foot way in front of knee, leg straight or almost, foot pointing UPWARD.

I call my Sportster and V7 MIDmounts - though to be honest, my foot is at least partially behind my knee on both.

Now part of it is I also classify it more in the riding position than the control position. I.E. I move my feet back and hang them off the pegs by the ball of the foot most of the time I'm riding, which means I slide them forward slightly (only an inch or two) when I'm operating the controls.

So things like the Cali 1400, or even the Scout occupy this funny position BETWEEN Forwards and Mid mounts, but generally considering my foot position, I call them MIDMOUNTS.

That's MID MOUNT to me, not Forward:








THESE ARE FORWARDS:







Now I realize such a definition means a single physical example of a bike might be MidMounts to one rider and Forwards to the next. But absent a better objective measurement the definition works for me (even if everyone doesn't share it).

I guess we could say

Rear Sets = behind motor
Mid Mounts = next to motor
Forwards = in front of motor

But that would USUALLY work out the same as my current definition, and I'm sure there are some odd bikes/motors that would cloud it too.

[bad Chad]

I think your definition works pretty well.

[jackson]

And Harley dressers are a young man's bike 
  Dusty

He rides with a local Harley group and many of the people his age are riding Harley dressers.  Wasn't that way when I was younger but things change.  What's interesting to me is that I asked him if he wanted my Guzzi (for free) when I either quit riding or croaked and he said, NO.  So, not everyone appreciates the beauty of a Guzzi like the people on this forum.  Their loss...........but, it does speak volumes for the future of Guzzi.

[oldbike54]

He rides with a local Harley group and many of the people his age are riding Harley dressers.  Wasn't that way when I was younger but things change.  What's interesting to me is that I asked him if he wanted my Guzzi (for free) when I either quit riding or croaked and he said, NO.  So, not everyone appreciates the beauty of a Guzzi like the people on this forum.  Their loss...........but, it does speak volumes for the future of Guzzi.

 It is that ""local Harley Group" thing that he may be more interested in than anything else . Nothing wrong with wanting to belong , just that it is hard to locate a "local Guzzi riding group" . My local crew extends from Galveston , to Springfield MO , to South central NE , with stops in NW AR and SE Kansas . Kinda tough to meet up for breakfast , although we do get together a few times a year .

  Dusty

[steamdriven NZ]

When I first saw the pics of the V9 I thought "oh no". But you know, for all those people who wanted the V7 to have more horsepower, well, it seems to have it within what appears to be the basic architecture of the V7 chassis and bottom end/gearbox castings and swingarm mount. They will be different I guess, but it appears to be a bigger small block.
Styling wise, I like the V7 and if I hadn't already built my version of it and be happy with it I would have bought a V7 and made it a Cafe.

Bearing in mind I am having some age-related fitment issues these days relating to my legs and what is a much shorter (vertical distance) frame dimension of the V50 Monza frame from seat to peg, If not resolved by re-engineering it will result in my having to move the Monzada on after 26 years so it's a real problem.

That said, I would be JUST as interested in buying a V9 and changing the tank and seat as I would buying a V7 and fitting a fairing. One of the things I have always enjoyed about the Moto Guzzi world is that the bikes have rarely looked as I would have them. There are a few but some you go..."what were they thinking...?" But underneath the can be GREAT donor bikes! I think the poor old Nevada is one of the underrated bikes from Guzzi. Underneath that styling lies a frame and engine like all the others. Who remembers that lovely V7 tanked and seated bronze and white lovely thing posted here a while back? Cheap donor bike, put your own spin on it and there you go, value-for-money-personalised-to-your-own-taste cafe racer or V7 look-alike. Who remembers the cafe'd Bellagio also here a while back? YUM! . Bellagios standard do nothing for me but under that exterior....... AeroLario?Lario heads on a V7 engine? The SuperLario? All sorts seen on here, and this will (hopefully) be a good bike to start with.

Guzzi's used to appeal to the people who would adapt, modify, fiddle, and generally march to the beat of their own drum. NEVER would you see two Guzzi's at a rally that were the same, they would be modified to some extent.

As for performance, well, your situation may vary. In my province it's getting harder to find a road you can really fang on without finding others on it too. So for me it is a case of finding enjoyment in riding a small bike quickly and within 'defensible limits" IE a bit over-ish. Like KevM said. It's also why I bought a '73 C10 Chev truck rather than the C4 Corvette I was also offered. At least no-one EXPECTS much from the C10 but she can go when pedaled....otherwis e we just cruise and the traffic suddenly isn't an issue  ..... burble burble burble......

So I am suprising myself in that I don't necessarily like the styling straight off, but hey, what a project it would be to make into what I want.

The first person to get an under tank and seat mould off a V9, make a V7 top tank and seat so you get the V7 look (and a bigger tank!) and go into production. You'll sell heaps (and probably one to me). The aftermarket world must be rubbing its hands with glee right now. 

Kev B   

[Testarossa]

I find the styling of the Roamer revolting, but I'm really intrigued by the engine.  Having spent my entire adult life with the '74 T, I'd be VERY interested in spending the next 15 years or so (the remainder of my riding career) with a modern equivalent:  An 850-900 longitudinal V-twin with antilock brakes and dependable FI. A V9 T3 with "standard" ergos (pegs right under my butt, please), V7-style tank and a real pillion-comfortable standard saddle. Failing that, I'd accessorize a new V9 to match my Authentic '70s Lifestyle. I hope it would be lighter than the original T-series thanks to plastic bits, tubeless tires and a tighter frame  -- Maybe 480 lb dry? 


And while I was writing this, KevB posted the identical thought. So that's two of us.

[Penderic]

Judging by the company's year by year changes to the V7 line, it can be said the company listens to its customers and makes INCREMENTAL changes to address their concerns. (if the costs can be recovered and sales targets meet)

So each year I would not be surprised to see new tanks/seats/covers/bling items as the popular models mature.

The V9 is just a baby.

Lets see how the baby grows up.....

[Chuck in Indiana]

I find the styling of the Roamer revolting, but I'm really intrigued by the engine.  Having spent my entire adult life with the '74 T, I'd be VERY interested in spending the next 15 years or so (the remainder of my riding career) with a modern equivalent:  An 850-900 longitudinal V-twin with antilock brakes and dependable FI. A V9 T3 with "standard" ergos (pegs right under my butt, please), V7-style tank and a real pillion-comfortable standard saddle. Failing that, I'd accessorize a new V9 to match my Authentic '70s Lifestyle. I hope it would be lighter than the original T-series thanks to plastic bits, tubeless tires and a tighter frame  -- Maybe 480 lb dry? 


And while I was writing this, KevB posted the identical thought. So that's two of us.

Kev.. I won't quote the whole thing with pix, etc.. "I" consider anything with my feet in front of me "forward" controls, and I don't like them, Sam I am. The Jackal I had was tolerable. Barely. When I changed it to a sidecar rig, it made it much more tolerable.. you didn't *need* to use your legs with that. Yeah, you need to slide your ass around, etc. but it wasn't a motorcycle any more.
the V9 ergos look about like the Jackal to me.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Lets see how the baby grows up.....

Oh.. maybe.. but I don't *have * a lot of time for the glacial pace of Guzzi to evolve.  I had been really looking forward to maybe something I would like.. finally. Didn't happen. I'll keep what I have. <shrug>

[Kev m]

Kev.. I won't quote the whole thing with pix, etc.. "I" consider anything with my feet in front of me "forward" controls, and I don't like them, Sam I am. The Jackal I had was tolerable. Barely. When I changed it to a sidecar rig, it made it much more tolerable.. you didn't *need* to use your legs with that. Yeah, you need to slide your ass around, etc. but it wasn't a motorcycle any more.
the V9 ergos look about like the Jackal to me.

Fair enough. I didn't invent the terms and have no copyright. 

And you're free to like or hate what you want.

To me there's not a big difference between the Jackal foot position and Cali 1400. The Scout is kinda starting to push it, but I could probably live with it.

So the V7 vs the V9 is fine.

[jas67]

It is that ""local Harley Group" thing that he may be more interested in than anything else . Nothing wrong with wanting to belong , just that it is hard to locate a "local Guzzi riding group" . My local crew extends from Galveston , to Springfield MO , to South central NE , with stops in NW AR and SE Kansas . Kinda tough to meet up for breakfast , although we do get together a few times a year .

  Dusty

I had to go to New Jersey from Central Pennsylvania for my last two Guzzi rides, although there are a few within an hours drive of me.

[mjptexas]

Well,  I'm kinda thinking one of these:



would make a great replacement for this:



Plusses:
- Lighter
- Has to handle better
- Won't shake as much

Minuses
- Won't be as fast (the Sportster above is a 1200).
- Won't be as comfortable (I've already made the prerequisite changes to the Harley $$$ seat, shocks, fork springs $$$)

So with the addition of a Corbin Gunfighter, shocks, Agostinis when they are available, I think the V9 would be a nice replacement.  Kinda glad I didn't drop the hammer on one of the great V7 deals I've seen.

[Kev m]

Well,  I'm kinda thinking one of these:



would make a great replacement for this:



Plusses:
- Lighter
- Has to handle better
- Won't shake as much

Minuses
- Won't be as fast (the Sportster above is a 1200).
- Won't be as comfortable (I've already made the prerequisite changes to the Harley $$$ seat, shocks, fork springs $$$)

So with the addition of a Corbin Gunfighter, shocks, Agostinis when they are available, I think the V9 would be a nice replacement.  Kinda glad I didn't drop the hammer on one of the great V7 deals I've seen.

  Though personally I could see owning em side-by-side. But that's almost the exact model they had in mind with the V9.

I'll say I'm surprised you're saying yours shakes much. I mean, sure the motor sorta rocks to and fro on the mounts, but going down the road she's pretty darn smooth. I mean, not Goldwing smooth, but as smooth as I want anything.

Still, GO FOR IT!

[mjptexas]

...I'll say I'm surprised you're saying yours shakes much. I mean, sure the motor sorta rocks to and fro on the mounts, but going down the road she's pretty darn smooth...

Kev,

It's relative.  The Sporty is plenty smooth, until I compare it with two of the three Guzzis I have.  I'd be really surprised if the V9 doesn't beat it in that area. 

One of the saving graces about the Sporty is that, unlike the Monster or the Griso, it doesn't continually scream 'Ride me faster ride me faster'.  It's the least likely bike in the group to score a traffic ticket.

[Muzz]

As one who is posting with no inclination to buy a V9 as I am sooooo in lurve with the Breva,  one thing that seems to be passed on down the line are the low quality rear suspension units.  Mine are set with the spring settings as soft as they will go, and they are spot on with a pillion on the back. When johnr and myself were on the Guzzi rally down south I did not touch the spring settings and the bike felt spot on. I am 72kgs and John is about 100kgs.  As you can imagine, when it hits a bump in the middle of a corner it can get exciting when riding solo.

I have found that one does not need a 185hp Hyabusa to do the 100kph speed limit. I can live with 48hp especially as the Breva is really comfortable on a long trip.  I get the feeling that more and more people are coming to the conclusion that the best bike is not necessarily the one that is fastest from one power pole to the next.

[Kev m]

Kev,

It's relative.  The Sporty is plenty smooth, until I compare it with two of the three Guzzis I have.  I'd be really surprised if the V9 doesn't beat it in that area. 

One of the saving graces about the Sporty is that, unlike the Monster or the Griso, it doesn't continually scream 'Ride me faster ride me faster'.  It's the least likely bike in the group to score a traffic ticket.

Oh I hear ya. I'm just thinking that I've always thought the V7 was a bit more vibey than the Sporty at the handgrips. Simply because the Sporty motor is more isolated. It's not as smooth as say the Cali 1400, but it does smooth out pretty well to me.

That's not to say I have the slightest objection to the feel of the V7 at the handlebars though.

But this is all subjective stuff anyway.

Get the V9!

[Muzz]

Oh I hear ya. I'm just thinking that I've always thought the V7 was a bit more vibey than the Sporty at the handgrips.
Get the V9!

Interesting Kev, I do not notice any vibes through the handlebars on the Breva. Wonder if the shape of them or the weights in them are different.