Dry vs Wet Clutch?

[oldbike54]

Uhhh....OK.

  NOTHING written on this forum will ever change my riding habits. 

 Even if it was suggested that riding backwards and upside down half of the time would double the life of your motorbike ?

  Dusty

[Kev m]

I'm pretty much with Pokey, though I should say I keep my hand on the brakes and I've made the mistake of letting go of the clutch when I wasn't in neutral. The bike doesn't go anywhere, it tries to lurch, then stalls.

As for safety, I watch while keeping my left hand on the clutch lever and left foot literally poised on the shifter. And if anyone isn't slowing fast enough or stopping far enough back I snick it into gear until they are stopped.

[Kev m]

If you have enough time to worry about your clutch cable snapping at a stop light, you have spent too much time worrying and not enough time enjoying riding.

The short time you might spend at a stop light or stop sign isn't going to make one bit of difference, it the cable snaps or the clutch fails, it was going to do it anyway.

If your cable snaps and you launch into the intersection, obviously you are in lala land and not paying attention.

The clutch was created and designed to be used. Dragging or slipping the clutch excessively is harmful to them, like anything, the operative function here is excessive.

A lot more people get hit from behind at stops than people have clutch cables snap at stop signs or lights.

Anyone worried about a clutch cable snapping or the clutch wearing out hasn't ridden where steep hills exist. Most likely, they've never ridden two up and loaded or been in heavy traffic.

You can buy auto tranny motorcycles, for the clutch operation challenged.

If you want to worry about something, that clunck you hear when putting the trans in gear because you wanted to save your clutch or its cable was the sound of metal hitting metal.

Clutches, like brakes, are wearable items, one day you might have to repair or replace it. Before that time, you will have spent many times that amount changing oil and filters unless you ride very infrequently so as not to get the oil and filter dirty.

Its a clutch not a chastity belt.

Boy sometimes you spout a mixture of vitriol and nonsense that makes me wonder if you're cranky or crazy.

But maybe we ask get a little cranky or crazy sometimes.

[oldbike54]

 Isn't tryptophan is sedative ? Let's play nice boys , it is thanksgiving .

  Dusty

[56Pan]

If you have enough time to worry about your clutch cable snapping at a stop light, you have spent too much time worrying and not enough time enjoying riding.

The short time you might spend at a stop light or stop sign isn't going to make one bit of difference, it the cable snaps or the clutch fails, it was going to do it anyway.

If your cable snaps and you launch into the intersection, obviously you are in lala land and not paying attention.

The clutch was created and designed to be used. Dragging or slipping the clutch excessively is harmful to them, like anything, the operative function here is excessive.

A lot more people get hit from behind at stops than people have clutch cables snap at stop signs or lights.

Anyone worried about a clutch cable snapping or the clutch wearing out hasn't ridden where steep hills exist. Most likely, they've never ridden two up and loaded or been in heavy traffic.

You can buy auto tranny motorcycles, for the clutch operation challenged.

If you want to worry about something, that clunck you hear when putting the trans in gear because you wanted to save your clutch or its cable was the sound of metal hitting metal.

Clutches, like brakes, are wearable items, one day you might have to repair or replace it. Before that time, you will have spent many times that amount changing oil and filters unless you ride very infrequently so as not to get the oil and filter dirty.

Its a clutch not a chastity belt.

Wasn't a snapped cable with me.  Leather friction disc on an HD foot clutch got wet and the rocker flipped over at a busy intersection.  No, it's not something I lie awake at night worrying about.

[bpreynolds]

Isn't tryptophan is sedative ? Let's play nice boys , it is thanksgiving .

  Dusty

I think tryptophan is an additive.  Let's talk oil.   

[Scott of the Sahara]

I always try to find neutral at a stop light. This saves me from starting in 2nd

[canuguzzi]

Boy sometimes you spout a mixture of vitriol and nonsense that makes me wonder if you're cranky or crazy.

But maybe we ask get a little cranky or crazy sometimes.

Just trying to fit in with the rest if the crazies and crankies.

[cleatusj]

I just feel lucky when I can find neutral any time that the engine is running.

[Muzz]

I've been riding for almost 50 years and have never been in a situation at a light where I had to "get out of the way quick."  Maybe I've just been lucky.  I was seriously schooled by my father, however, about breaking clutch cables.  You don't want to be stopped, in gear, if that happens (and it did to him on an old Goldstar).  I've had the clutch cable on my new V7 stretch while I was in heavy traffic on a hot day - that's no fun either.  I sit in neutral at lights and try to use the clutch as little as possible.  But that's just me.

That's me 3.

I throw it in to first at the last minute as the Thorington bearing that sits at the back of the gearbox only has the amount of lube (read grease there) that it was assembled with. Although it is designed to take thrust my view is the less load the bearing has to endure the longer it will last.

To back up the previous post, I was sitting at the lights many years ago with lever pulled in an sitting in first on my Matchy single. Got hit from behind by a car, the bike reared up and leapt in front of a bus and I was left flat on my back observing the underneath of a Wolseley 6/80 radiator.   Never left the bike engaged in gear at the lights since.

[Kev m]

Just trying to fit in with the rest if the crazies and crankies.

Fair enough my friend, fair enough...

[bigbikerrick]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but....YES problem for a wet clutch or any clutch.
You shouldnt sit at a standstill with ANY clutch wet or dry for extended periods of time. All you are doing is glazing up the clutch friction plates,heating up the steel plates and loading up the throwout bearing and gearbox input shaft bearing and on a wet clutch heating up and putting friction material into the oil.
Any time you have the clutch disengaged for anything other than selecting gears or smoothing out the drive while riding slowly in traffic is a negative. Obviously the latter isnt exactly great but its less harmfull than bunny hopping along.
Any clutch is at its happiest when fully engaged.
Ciao

     

Exactly, what I have always thought, Lucky Phil . Well Stated!
Rick.

[charlie b]

Here's another vote for putting the bike in neutral at a stop.  I do the same with cars.

Yes, if it is a short stop I will leave it in gear.

Yes, I have used a clutch on many, many hills.  That's where the foot brake is great and why I like handbrakes on a car that has a manual tranny.

And yes, I have over heated a clutch by leaving it in gear on a long stop.  The intermediate disk warps and then it just gets worse from there.  I had not checked the clutch adjustment in a long time but it seemed fine.  Now days I take out almost all the slack in the clutch cable (adjust per my Guzzi manual).

[MGPilot]

Obviously, you can do it any way you want.

But...if your clutch is adjusted properly, leaving it in gear and holding the clutch in fully (clutch fully disengaged; handle down all the way) should make No Difference in the wear of the plates, their temperatures, glazing, etc.  That's the point of disengaging the clutch!

A point of terminology, "slipping the clutch" generally refers to a partially released clutch. That's what you do to get going or to go slower than the engine would allow. A few dolts slip their clutch rather than use a brake which will dramatically wear the clutch, increase temperatures, etc. That's not the same as a fully disengaged clutch.

You should not be at a light, slipping the clutch (with wet or dry clutches). Just have your right foot on the brake and your clutch fully engaged.

The Motorcycle Safety Foundation recommends leaving the transmission in gear. This gives you the chance of being able to pull out to avoid a reckless driver. They figure that the time it takes to get the transmission in gear, and then try to avoid the accident might be enough to determine whether you're hit or not.

Modern, sealed bearings are pretty dam good. The amount of stress on a factory standard throw-out bearing for a small displacement engine meant for the street is modest. These are not super duty racing assemblies. It is true that the best position for a clutch is fully engaged.

Were you do to a lot of slow speed driving (so slowly that you can't fully engage the clutch), wet plates seem to have an advantage over dry plates.

But they are the same, sitting at a light while the transmission is in gear--as the plate (in the case of the V7) will be separated from the flywheel. The only stress is on the throw-out bearing which was sized and designed to take it.

[ohiorider]

Here's another vote for putting the bike in neutral at a stop.  I do the same with cars.

Yes, if it is a short stop I will leave it in gear.

Yes, I have used a clutch on many, many hills.  That's where the foot brake is great and why I like handbrakes on a car that has a manual tranny.

Yeeessss!  I developed the habit of holding the handbrake with the button depressed while sitting on an uphill grade waiting for traffic to move (or the light to change.)  Started doing that with my first VW, a 1959 Cabriolet, body by Karmann.  Still do it today with my Mazda6 V6 with stick shift.

It's a simple coordination, to release the handbrake as you engage the clutch. And saves a lot of wear and tear on the clutch.

On to bikes: Several years ago, we pulled up to a stop sign on our bikes on a rather steep uphill grade.  As always, I use the rear brake to hold me on an uphill stop as I release the clutch.  A riding companion didn't do the same, and found himself starting to slide backwards.  Why?  Most of the weight was off the front tire, and he was attempting to hold the bike on the uphill grade with the front brake.  Yep, the brake worked, but the lightly-loaded tire began slipping, and the bike began rolling backwards.

Well, since he knew most everything about everything, the problem (from his standpoint) was blamed on the bike's ABS system.  Of course!  We don't spend too much (no) time riding together anymore.

[charlie b]

FWIW, on a multiplate clutch there is always the possibility of contact between the surfaces when the clutch is disengaged.  There is nothing in the mechanism that forces the intermediate disc and friction discs to separate.  There will be some friction.

On a single plate clutch, like on most cars, the mechanism separates the friction disc and the flywheel, no contact at all.

[Triple Jim]

FWIW, on a multiplate clutch there is always the possibility of contact between the surfaces when the clutch is disengaged.  There is nothing in the mechanism that forces the intermediate disc and friction discs to separate.

The Kawasaki triples had wavy springs between the clutch plates to separate them when disengaged.  I don't know how many other multiplate wet clutches had similar spings, but I assume at least some.

But even without separating springs, incidental contact with nearly no pressure isn't likely to cause glazing or any other problem.