Newer 1100 Engines in an Older Tonti Frame?

[mgmark]

I see articles where the builder has fit a late 90s -2000s 1100 engine into an early Tonti framed bike. I'm considering this for my '85 because it seems these 1100 are fairly plentiful and not too much money.
I will run carbs to keep it simple, but my big question is how to run the ignition without a distributor? I see there are flywheel pickups for an electronic ignition. Do I have to run the original Guzzi ignition, or is there something else that works?
These engines are usually sold without external accessories so I would have to come up with something that works.
I have contacted some of the builders to ask what they used and received no reply.
thanks
Mark

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Maybe a Silent Hektik ignition that attaches to the alternator?:

http://www.motoguzzisales.co.uk/Silent%20Hektik.htm

[mtiberio]

ditto on the alternator ignition

[fotoguzzi]

or keep everything from the modern square fin.

[PeteS]

I know ratguzzi, John B has done it. 2003 motor in a T3. I think he kept the FI though.

Pete

[oldbike54]

I know ratguzzi, John B has done it. 2003 motor in a T3. I think he kept the FI though.

Pete

 Yeah , just run the complete system .

  Dusty

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Yeah , just run the complete system .

  Dusty

Guess y'all missed or ignored this part of the original post: "I will run carbs to keep it simple, but my big question is how to run the ignition without a distributor?."

[oldbike54]

Guess y'all missed or ignored this part of the original post: "I will run carbs to keep it simple, but my big question is how to run the ignition without a distributor?."

 No , we saw that , but it would be simpler to run the complete system .

 Dusty

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

No , we saw that , but it would be simpler to run the complete system .

 Dusty

How could it be simpler than carbs with a separate e.i. system? If Mark buys just an engine (vs. a complete bike), he'd need to also buy all of the wiring, ECU, throttle bodies, fuel pump, etc., then find a place to put all of that on the bike. If he's building a cafe' style bike, it would be pretty tough to find a location for all of it.

Two carbs - gravity feed - no wiring, pump or ECU to make them work. Silent Hektik ignition - plug and play installation, very easy to package. <shrug>

[oldbike54]

How could it be simpler than carbs with a separate e.i. system? If Mark buys just an engine (vs. a complete bike), he'd need to also buy all of the wiring, ECU, throttle bodies, fuel pump, etc., then find a place to put all of that on the bike. If he's building a cafe' style bike, it would be pretty tough to find a location for all of it.

Two carbs - gravity feed - no wiring, pump or ECU to make them work. Silent Hektik ignition - plug and play installation, very easy to package. <shrug>

 Wsan't it Roper that posted the pic of the bike that burned up from the SH ignition ? Yes , probably easier  to go the go the carb route .

  Dusty

[Tom]

Find an engine that only has plate blocking the dizzy hole or tap it for the dizzy.

[Vasco DG]

If you're going to run a distributor you'll need to do two things. Machine the case to take it and use a camshaft with a distributor drive on it. Both of which require disassembly of the motor so why not just swap all of the 1100 gear into the original cases and be done with it? You could even use a slightly less mild cam into the bargain.

Pete

[Tom]

Thanks Pete.  I knew there was more.  If you're swapping engines.  You might as well crack everything open and check it to ensure that you have a solid lump before installing in the frame.  That is unless you know the drivetrain.

[PeteS]

Does a motor with the small 15M computer use the TPS or RPM or both to set ignition timing. If it only depends on RPM then just keep the computer to fire the coils and swap the throttle bodies for carbs. What am I missing here?

Pete

[mgmark]

Thanks for the replies so far. I would rather use a motor already out of a bike instead of parting out an otherwise roadworthy bike. One more on the road instead of taking one off also. I do see some early Cali 1100 bikes pretty cheap though. Please bear in mind I know nothing of computers on bikes. All of my Guzzis over the years have had points or Dyna ignitions.
I'm hoping for a plug and play engine and occassionally come across fairly low mile motors. My 1000 is pushing 75K miles now and I'm trying to avoid the time and cost of a rebuild, on top of building the bike.
thanks again
Mark

[fotoguzzi]

Does a motor with the small 15M computer use the TPS or RPM or both to set ignition timing. If it only depends on RPM then just keep the computer to fire the coils and swap the throttle bodies for carbs. What am I missing here?

Pete

it uses a camshaft sensor, so RPM but he'd need the entire wiring harness and 15M cpu.

[blackcat]

My 1000 is pushing 75K miles now and I'm trying to avoid the time and cost of a rebuild, on top of building the bike.
thanks again
Mark

Unless you pay someone else to do the rebuild, I would think that it would be cheaper to do it yourself. Of course there is the time issue but still, it has to be less time than the route you are suggesting.

[jacksonracingcomau]

I did it by boring out the tunnel for points housing drive, fitting older Cam(thanks Pete), but did a few other tricks too, see corn eater thread. Is good.
But simple way of elec ig is to use orig flywheel pick up in bell housing and an aftermarket box like cliff jJeffries makes, could be  done in time it takes to swap engine only, you'd only need manifolds, carbs, rec reg and address breather (I back dated to behind clutch drain, could be done externally as 1100 sport etc)

Advantage of doing it slowly and thoroughly is you wouldn't lose bike during rebuild, if it took a month to mod engine, is still only a day to actually swap motors.

One thing that did need 2 goes, I made a plate to cover cam sensor hole  & used 3 bond + orig o ring. Took 15K miles but developed leak as   std Cali does. I araldited the plate on, fixed forever.

MH

[fotoguzzi]

for me it was an exercise in how many different bikes could I draw from and match up the parts to make a Frankenstein Tonti..



the SPEVert.. mostly Convert with EV motor/electronics and SP skin..

[HDGoose]

*snip* My 1000 is pushing 75K miles now and I'm trying to avoid the time and cost of a rebuild, on top of building the bike.
thanks again
Mark

75k? If proper maintenance has been done, this is a 200K motor.

[oldbike54]

75k? If proper maintenance has been done, this is a 200K motor.

  :1:
 
  Dusty

[arveno]

My 98 cali has the hole where the distributor should go. it is closed by a plate and two screws.
does it means it will be possible just to drop in a distributor ?
sorry to jack the thread .

to the PO , keep looking on craigslist , sometimes old cali bike come up for sale for around 1500 , the whole bike. rather than pay 700/800 for the engine only.
where are you located ?

[Dick]

My 98 cali has the hole where the distributor should go. it is closed by a plate and two screws.
does it means it will be possible just to drop in a distributor ?

No.
The factory never finished boring the two diameters to the depth needed for a distributor. One being the distributor shaft and gear diameter and the other being the dist. housing diameter. The shaft and gear bore diameter needs to be enlarged and the housing bore needs to go deeper by roughly .200''. 

[Matt]

Yep, a good bit of work but I've done it to a '98 EV motor. Still a work in progress.

Available for a small fee if you want to continue the adventure. I'm cleaning out the garage, 25 years of hoarding moving out.

[tris]

How could it be simpler than carbs with a separate e.i. system? If Mark buys just an engine (vs. a complete bike), he'd need to also buy all of the wiring, ECU, throttle bodies, fuel pump, etc., then find a place to put all of that on the bike. If he's building a cafe' style bike, it would be pretty tough to find a location for all of it.

Two carbs - gravity feed - no wiring, pump or ECU to make them work. Silent Hektik ignition - plug and play installation, very easy to package. <shrug>

My 95 Cali came from MG with PHF36 carbs and digiplex ignition - doesn't that tick all the boxes?

[Murray]

My 95 Cali came from MG with PHF36 carbs and digiplex ignition - doesn't that tick all the boxes?

You would then have to find a model that exactly equiped which relatively had a fair short production run. Not all of them have the sensor in the flywheel for the digiplex. As suggested run the system that came with the motor if you want to keep it simple.

[mgmark]

I'm liking that Hektik ignition. My 1000 motor is still good, some very light smoke on the right side at start up. I'm probably working towards building a second bike but won't admit it to myself. You just collect parts for a project and magically wind up with enough for two.
I'm still short an engine and trans for the second bike, but otherwise it is complete. It is a toss up between stripping a donor bike for the running gear or just finding a separate engine and trans. No, common sense doesn't enter into it.
mark

[Murray]

My 1000 motor is still good, some very light smoke on the right side at start up.

After recently having a motor rebuilt that wasn't smoking, make no mistake its shagged. You will get a whole lot of go back if you get things sealing as originally intended.

[mtiberio]

for me it was an exercise in how many different bikes could I draw from and match up the parts to make a Frankenstein Tonti..



the SPEVert.. mostly Convert with EV motor/electronics and SP skin..

Dogs eat the spark plug?

[HDGoose]

After recently having a motor rebuilt that wasn't smoking, make no mistake its shagged. You will get a whole lot of go back if you get things sealing as originally intended.

What motor? What mileage?