Who Likes Air Cooled ?

[Tom]

Tough choice......no?

[brenwin]

In theory water-cooling allows for tighter tolerances, better efficiency (more power, better mileage, cleaner burn, though a at some point you have to sacrifice one for the other), and in theory longer life too (thanks to better temperature control, though whether or not that longer life means anything to a given individual is another matter).

I've been staunchly resisting the minor hassles and cosmetic burdens of water-cooling for 20+ years, but the OEM has done better and better jobs of making that a non-issue and the latest Bonnie might be a tipping point for me.

I'll still resist a water-cooled MG or Harley if they can't do as well, but I'D THEY CAN... hmmm ok, might be time to embrace some change (even if the current air-cooked bikes remain in the fleet just because).

But look at that Bonnie, significantly more torque and better mileage with less pollution, there's a lot to like!

Journalists are now reporting seeing 60+ mpg on their Street Twin tests, which are generally not all sedate riding conditions either. Not bad.

I'll be checking them out at the Vancouver Motorcycle Show January 23 . Can't wait ! I hope the hypes right this time .

[Aaron D.]

Just a quick point-Porsches, Tatras et al are fan-cooled, which is a different animal to the breeze cooled/free air engines in our bikes. Same with Vespas and other small scooters.

It isn't a minor distinction. Early Vespas went with straight air cooling for a year or so-overheating changed their minds.

And fan cooling isn't free, it takes a bit of power to run the "air pump".

A fan cooled bike would not likely be attractive to us old fellows.

[Kev m]

There's a bunch of leftover 2014 Honda CB1100 (air/oil cooled) bikes out there for approx. $8500 before even dealing on them.  And from what I've read about them, it might just be a nice do it all machine.  Only objection is the rather short intervals between valve checks, and the fact that it is shim under bucket.

And there's the new Triumph T 120 (air/oil/water cooled) coming on line, but they'll want full MSRP +, and I'm not in the mood to throw money away again.

I don't want to make light of money, but it's ONLY MONEY. You can't take it with you.

If you WANT the CB1100, then the savings is nice.

But IF YOU WANT THE T120, who gives a crap if they want MSRP?

Hell I paid MSRP for my Stone without any regrets (and that was when another dealer was offering me a discount, but I was trying to do the right thing and support my local @sshole, I mean, dealer i.e. FBF, which was the right thing to try and do so I still have no regrets).

BUY THE ONE YOU WANT!

I'll be checking them out at the Vancouver Motorcycle Show January 23 . Can't wait ! I hope the hypes right this time .

Looking forward to any reports you may make!

[jas67]

Those had gas fired heaters, didn't they? VW is still doing something similar- the diesels have an electric aux heater since the coolant can take so long to warm up.

 

Really?

Our 2012 Jetta Sportwagon and 2013 Golf sure don't.

When we had a real cold spell, it took forever to get heat out of either.

[cruzziguzzi]

On motorcycles? I like it a lot. Though in fact, it has less to do with "liking" air cooling so much as not really wanting the added complexities of water cooling. I can certainly bow to the logic of better across-the-board performance coming from water dependent engines but I don't get to the ragged edge of performance anymore.

What's more... I've several times been let down by water cooled bikes. So, if I'm not forced to take it - I won't.

Cars now... I know someone will pipe up about having 675,000 miles on theirs or erroneously use the "Pan-American" attempt in sham support of the Mephistophi-canical Corvair but having given three (Yup... slow learner) of these things a go has soured me eternally on all things multi-wheeled and aircooled - where real world use is concerned.

Dedicated ducting prone to migration.
Oil/gas fumes in the heater/defrost ducting.
What heaters/defrosters?
Cobbing in a gas heater in the cab - there's a damn fine idea there.

One notable exception comes to mind:

We had, back in a day, "inherited" a flock of slick-topped Pinz-Gauers. Most impressive stuff toter available to get about a desert. Of course, no windshield to defrost other than goggles and no cab to heat.



'Sides, radiators are fugly!

Don't even get me started on hydraulic controls! Affectatious down-market toys for the wonks what can't afford "fly-by-wire".

Cable if you're able, liquid for the bike squid!


Todd.

[davedel44]

WE DO!

[rss29]

Really?

Our 2012 Jetta Sportwagon and 2013 Golf sure don't.

When we had a real cold spell, it took forever to get heat out of either.

Those are both Mk6 cars so they should have it. It doesn't do much, only 1000 watts or so, but takes the edge off on really cold days at low fan speeds. They're pretty prone to failure too. There should be a 100A fuse for it in the engine compartment.

[ohiorider]

I don't want to make light of money, but it's ONLY MONEY. You can't take it with you.

If you WANT the CB1100, then the savings is nice.

But IF YOU WANT THE T120, who gives a crap if they want MSRP?

Hell I paid MSRP for my Stone without any regrets (and that was when another dealer was offering me a discount, but I was trying to do the right thing and support my local @sshole, I mean, dealer i.e. FBF, which was the right thing to try and do so I still have no regrets).

BUY THE ONE YOU WANT!


Looking forward to any reports you may make!

True enough re the money thing!  The Honda dealer will give me the opportunity to take the CB1100 for a demo ride.  He's located in a nice part of Ohio with lots of good two lane roads, plus not far from I 90 where I could put a few miles on the bike at cruising speed.  And it may work out to be the better bike for my purposes .... don't know.  I do want to find out how complicated it is to swap valve shims on the CB.  In talking with the Triumph factory tech rep, it sounded as though it is possible to change shims without removing the SOHC, but I'd want to confirm that, too. Guzzis and Beemer airheads spoil us when it comes to valve adjustments. 

So step one is to figure out if Soichirio's semi-retro bike will or won't fill the bill.  If so, decision made.  if not, it'll be deposit time on a T120 for delivery in the April timeframe.

I'll have to pm you some time for your true opinion on your dealer (FBF.)

Happy holidays!

Bob

[motodoc43]

Are the new 8vs and 1400s really air cooled or oil cooled?
I love the v- twin Guzzis, and wouldn't likely be interested in an inline 4 if they made one, but what about the already developed water cooled v-twin with over 140 horsepower?
The issue is power. You can get more power reliably with water cooling. A new lemans that looks like an MGSO1 with a 140 horsepower water cooled v-twin? Yep I'd buy it tomorrow!

[Kev m]

True enough re the money thing!  The Honda dealer will give me the opportunity to take the CB1100 for a demo ride.  He's located in a nice part of Ohio with lots of good two lane roads, plus not far from I 90 where I could put a few miles on the bike at cruising speed.  And it may work out to be the better bike for my purposes .... don't know.  I do want to find out how complicated it is to swap valve shims on the CB.  In talking with the Triumph factory tech rep, it sounded as though it is possible to change shims without removing the SOHC, but I'd want to confirm that, too. Guzzis and Beemer airheads spoil us when it comes to valve adjustments. 

So step one is to figure out if Soichirio's semi-retro bike will or won't fill the bill.  If so, decision made.  if not, it'll be deposit time on a T120 for delivery in the April timeframe.

 

Sounds Perfect, have fun!

Speaking of Valve Adjustments, I wonder if anyone else in the industry is doing this. In the last few years Yamaha has been converting most of their 4-stroke outboards to a valve train that doesn't use shims. Instead they use SIZED, REPLACEABLE LIFTERS!      This largely on DOHC VVT motors that take some significant disassembly to get to said lifters to swap them out. So whatever the CB is, well, it could be worse.

I'll have to pm you some time for your true opinion on your dealer (FBF.)

Ha ha, I'll have to stop candy coating it (like I've ever candy coated something in my lifetime). 

Happy holidays!

Merry Christmas to you and yours!

Are the new 8vs and 1400s really air cooled or oil cooled?

Meh, semantics. I can't think of a modern air-cooled motor that isn't oil cooled.