Maybe MG will drop the Norge or Stelvio? ( title change)

[canuguzzi]

Does it make any sense from a business perspective for MG to just drop the 1200 8V engine and continue on with the small block and the big 1400?

That would mean no Stelvio or Norge but Piaggio has other brands with bikes that fill the ADV market.

If the ST market is going away as some here have said, that leaves only the Stelvio and Norge for the 1200 engine and with the Norge being discounted so heavily is it economically viable to keep it in the lineup? That's a rhetorical question.

Would there be a significant benefit to maintaining just the small and large and dropping the in-between?

[John Ulrich]

Why drop it?  The tooling and everything is done on it.  Milk it for many years to come to pay for the R&D years ago.

[JeffOlson]

What about the Grisso?

[molly]

I hope they don't drop the 1200cc format. I personally want something that kicks out 100+bhp in a light weight package. If Guzzi could do that with a 1000/1200cc liquid cooled V twin with shaft drive that would be great.

[Doppelgaenger]

Agreed with John, the tooling is already made and has to earn its keep. I'm sure they can some up with something to shoehorn the engine into that will sell for a while to come. It's a great engine, why trash it?

I really don't understand where this is coming from. Yes, sales right now probably suck...  But!

Don't forget that the V9 coming out. They're actually diversifying their offerings instead of divesting themselves. They've offered 850 versions of the Griso and B11 in the past that we don't get in the US, now the Roamer is coming which will probably sell well.

Ewan McGregor has also signed up to do a Panamerican trip with Moto Guzzi, which is sure to be on a Stelvio, and if the video that is sure to follow can do for MG what Long Way Round did for the BMW 1200 adventure I actually see MG getting a LOT more sales.

Now if only Piaggio can invest money into dealers and standing behind their products like a world class company should...

I can't see Guzzi not offering a big bore sport tourer or naked bike, they've been making them for so long... And while I haven't ridden the 1400 engine, I can't imagine that it has the livelyhood of the 1200cc engine. The fact that you can't mount it solidly to the frame says something against that

[redrider]

To my eyes, the 1400 lump is ugly. I would avoid buying a machine with that engine. No offence intended to those who own and love the thing. I prefer the square fin looks.

[bpreynolds]

Wait a minute, I thought the Norge, Griso, and Stelvio had all been dropped from the new lineup? 

I seriously see Guzzi experimenting a bit with the 8V and water cooling in the same way BMW has done with their 1200 boxer.

[Travman]

Wait a minute, I thought the Norge, Griso, and Stelvio had all been dropped from the new lineup? 

I seriously see Guzzi experimenting a bit with the 8V and water cooling in the same way BMW has done with their 1200 boxer.

Other than speculation heard on this site, has there been any credible information about any of these three models being dropped?

[Kev m]

The only mumblings I've heard were a question whether or not the 1200 8V could be made compliant with upcoming EU standards.

IIRC one poster with an excellent record of accurate inside info seemed to suggest no.

[Moto]

Ewan McGregor has also signed up to do a Panamerican trip with Moto Guzzi, which is sure to be on a Stelvio, and if the video that is sure to follow can do for MG what Long Way Round did for the BMW 1200 adventure I actually see MG getting a LOT more sales.

I don't think this notion is based on anything more than one fly-by-night website's misreading of another's report of an offhand comment by McGregor. I base this opinion on having tried to track down the source back when this first came up.

Moto

[LowRyter]

if they can keep the weight down, they should upgrade the complete big block line with 1400 hi power engines.

Lower weight and 20% more power should be the goal.  If 1400 will do it, so be it.   

[bad Chad]

Other than speculation heard on this site, has there been any credible information about any of these three models being dropped?

No. Nothing what so ever.

[Daniel Kalal]

Other than speculation heard on this site, has there been any credible information about any of these three models being dropped?

When in Mandello last year, I was told by the folks at Agostini that the Griso was not being built and would not be sold in 2016.  But, I've heard nothing similar about the Norge or Stelvio to indicate that they would not continue to be available.  Of course, that's not the same as being from a factor insider, but it is credible.

[JeffOlson]

When in Mandello last year, I was told by the folks at Agostini that the Griso was not being built and would not be sold in 2016.  But, I've heard nothing similar about the Norge or Stelvio to indicate that they would not continue to be available.  Of course, that's not the same as being from a factor insider, but it is credible.

Yet all three of those motorcycles continue to appear on Moto Guzzi's website, including the Griso, and here it is 2016 already:

http://www.motoguzzi.com/motoguzzi/EN/en/bikes/naked/Griso/griso-1200-8v-Se.html

I predict that Moto Guzzi will drop all three of those bikes from its lineup--some day--including all of the other bikes it currently makes.

[Daniel Kalal]

Yet all three of those motorcycles continue to appear on Moto Guzzi's website, including the Griso, and here it is 2016 already

I'm  not sure it's 2016 in Mandello, just yet (they take a long holiday shut-down).  If you check the brochure on the link, you'll see it's still labeled 2015 and you'll see that the Griso is the only model not showing ABS.  They've not updated their website.

Of course, it's still possible...  (I hope so)

[JeffOlson]

^ Good point.

The Grisso still shows up on the USA website, but who knows (other than insiders holding their cards close to their vest).

[Travlr]

Why spend scarce dollars to: stock parts, upgrade to constantly tightening emissions and safety  standards, promote and warranty a line of bikes that aren't selling?

M

[bpreynolds]

Why spend scarce dollars to: stock parts, upgrade to constantly tightening emissions and safety  standards, promote and warranty a line of bikes that aren't selling?

M

 :1:  Great bikes all around but I just think to remain competitive in their given classes, the 1200 engine for all 3 - if kept - will likely need some kind of unobtrusive water cooling.  Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I won't argue; I just think the company needs to go in that direction if they intend to keep that engine in those bikes.  I had this idea that Guzzi would drop those bikes, spend the next year promoting the new V9 and the California while developing a new 1200 water cooled engine. 

[Travman]

I'd like to see all three 1200 8V models get "upgraded" to 1400cc before their next redesign. That would probably get me interested in another Guzzi. I'd like them to keep the current style head covers though. I don't think the super large/finned head covers of the California 1400 would work on a Griso. Those covers are styled to look extra large in order to appeal to the cruiser buyer.

[Travman]

Guzz should also make a smallblock 850cc Griso, Norge, and Stelvio. These new models could be a lot lighter than the big block models since the frames could be much lighter. 

[canuguzzi]

Guzz should also make a smallblock 850cc Griso, Norge, and Stelvio. These new models could be a lot lighter than the big block models since the frames could be much lighter.

That would appeal to a lot more people.

The tooling costs have been paid one way or another long ago on the 1200. Its really an engine that is a size that puts the bikes that have it in direct competition with bikes that outclass it in performance. It has the character of a Guzzi but then so does the small block and they are trying to be something they aren't.

The middleweight market (used to be heavy weight years past) 800 <=> is on fire as is that weight class.

As many know, reduce weight and performance goes up. Without going through significant redesign, not that much weight can come off the 1200 engined bikes, they are what they are.

Sales number talk and everything else doesn't matter too much unless its an emotional effort to sustain some idea of what a motorcycle should be. There is plenty if that but how many of those who follow the idea buy new Moto Guzzi bikes? Very few.

Liquid cooling might create some market opportunities but that is a new engine, not a reworked 1200. If liquid cooling can also bring performance improvements, then that might even be more reason to dump the 1200 and move to liquid cooling in the small block and up the ante there.

[drlapo]

I would consider a V12 standard style bike

[bpreynolds]

That would appeal to a lot more people.

The tooling costs have been paid one way or another long ago on the 1200. Its really an engine that is a size that puts the bikes that have it in direct competition with bikes that outclass it in performance. It has the character of a Guzzi but then so does the small block and they are trying to be something they aren't.

The middleweight market (used to be heavy weight years past) 800 <=> is on fire as is that weight class.

As many know, reduce weight and performance goes up. Without going through significant redesign, not that much weight can come off the 1200 engined bikes, they are what they are.

Sales number talk and everything else doesn't matter too much unless its an emotional effort to sustain some idea of what a motorcycle should be. There is plenty if that but how many of those who follow the idea buy new Moto Guzzi bikes? Very few.

Liquid cooling might create some market opportunities but that is a new engine, not a reworked 1200. If liquid cooling can also bring performance improvements, then that might even be more reason to dump the 1200 and move to liquid cooling in the small block and up the ante there.

Yeah, a liquid cooled small block would be interesting, certainly, but I just don't see it on the horizon as they've already gone through the trouble of producing the new V9.  Guzzi - who generally moves at a snail's pace as per big developments - would not soon come out with water cooling on that bike nor even the 750 anytime soon after such a roll out on the Roamer.  But who knows.  I personally believe the V7 line has saved the company and that fact - that they've got a winner - and where they go with that in regard to any of their bikes could be interesting, is already interesting as I really like the Roamer.  So you've got this new bike and engine (V9) and then you've got the 1400, and then you've got the 1200 that is just kinda going nowhere but behind in its relative class.  My bets would be that engine is the first to get either nixed or redeveloped with water cooling.  And if so, maybe they'll take some of the styling cues that have proven so successful in the V7 line and apply them to the 1200.

[canuguzzi]

Shoot, just an ADVer cross ST with the V9 would ring bells. The standards and cruiser mixups don't do much for me but I'd be all over a middle weight V9 engined alternative to the heavier Norge/Stelvio.

Horsepower? More would be nice but really, as long as it doesn't slow down when opening the throttles, good with what it shows to have. Horsepower you don't use is almost wasteful and so long as there is enough to not embarrass you...

[PJPR01]

If I'm not mistaken, there was a European version of the Norge with an 850 motor in it...just not brought stateside.

How much more does the 1400 motor weigh vs. the 1200, are all of the other parts simply plug and play?

Frankly the Norge feels like it has the right balance of weight, power on demand, I'm curious what the 1400 would "feel" like in the Norge body...

[ohiorider]

Whatever they (Guzzi) do .... they probably need to trim down to:
- the new 850cc small block engine
- the 1400cc big block engine

This isn't what I'd like to see, but what I anticipate.

I would imagine that the 'compete with BMW strategy" with bikes like the Griso, Stelvio, and Norge  has very little appeal in the Piaggio boardroom discussions as of late, based on sales.

It appears to me that Guzzi is now interested in marketing:
- new small block bikes
- more 1400cc power cruisers

I'd say ...... go for it, Guzzi.  Doesn't make me happy,  but, making me happy, that's not your goal.

RIP CARC bikes.  I think with better quality control. and better marketing, you would have made a dent in BMW sales with your CARC line-up, and could have made a positive bump in Guzzi sales.

Too bad ... wonderful bikes ..... with superior engineering, but sub-standard marketing and post-sale support!

[Doppelgaenger]

Guzz should also make a smallblock 850cc Griso, Norge, and Stelvio. These new models could be a lot lighter than the big block models since the frames could be much lighter.

Guzzi has done this with the Griso. They actually sleeved the 1200cc engine to reduce the displacement but retained the entire lump of bike so they gained next to nothing in weight savings.

[bad Chad]

That was only done for insurances reasons in some E U nations, as i understand it.

[canuguzzi]

It doesn't matter that the 1200 can run away from the 1400, it can't run away from the competition and that is what really matters.

If MG had double digit market share it could compete with itself, that isn't the case.

As good as the 8V 1200 might be, just because its a MG engine doesn't mean its the platform to move the sales numbers. Its no secret that the 1200 hasn't made a big splash. Will it make enough profit to keep itself as part of the lineup?

2014 Norge's are going for below $10K. That is less than the same model sold for nearly 2 years ago.

[Lcarlson]

I've ridden the 8 v Griso, and was not particularly impressed. To me, the 1400 is a far better engine. In the cruisers, it can be ridden like a Harley up to 5000 rpm; above that, it's more like a Ducati (well, sort of, up to 7500 anyway). I've got to figure MG won't limit it to just cruisers though. It is a big motor, but consider this concept: a V7 II, upsized proportionally, to a V14. Interesting?