Will have to give up on MG, crying shame

[frans belgium]

After more than 15 years of riding MG, I'm forced to look elsewhere for a new bike.
Been riding Florida, Nevada, California, Breva and now Norge. With age however, Norge + passenger + luggage have become more than a handful, especially since I have to tiptoe it - being vertically challenged 
No problems riding it, but slow maneuvering and treacherous situations became a bit of a problem.  No more feeling 100% at ease. You know the drill.
Therefore I wanted a lighter and nimbler bike, yet capable of touring me and my wife around with enough ergos and torque. We are no lightweights.  I fixed all my hopes on a possible upgrade of the V7 and they gave me the V9 bobber instead, which is exactly the opposite of what I was looking for.
So Guzzi seems to have nothing between 200 and 300 kg or between 50 and 100 bhp.
I already see myself riding a ....(Beemer, Suzuki, Triumph, Aprila  ....) wearing my Guzzi stuff. Sigh..
This is a crying shame.  Wake up Guzzi.  Some people DO want a midsize/midclass bike.

[omega1987]

Perhaps the V9 will spawn other models such as a sport, classic, stone and perhaps even a mini Norge/Stevio.

[Muzz]

On a recent Guzzi rally here Frans my Breva ended up with both me and JohnR on it, scaling in at over 200kgs. John ended up on the front with me on the back as I was somewhat lighter. He thought that it would struggle but came to the conclusion that it went darn well and how do I keep it below 130kph. The smallblocks do tend to punch above their weight.

[JoeB]

I find this to be a topic of interest. Please let us know what you finally end up with.

[ChuckH]

I understand exactly.  My '12 Stelvio is a great touring bike but, after three years and 32K miles, it's getting a bit too heavy for me to manage comfortably/confidently, when loaded, and I don't want to chance dropping it.

I began looking for a lighter replacement.  In the Guzzi ranks, the V7 and V7II are too small for me and my intended loading -- this is not an engine size issue, the bikes are just physically too much smaller.  I could always go back to a 650 Strom (or similar bike) but didn't want to deal with a chain again.  So I ended up finding a decent '07 BMW R1200R, a legitimate 100# lighter than the Stelvio, even when they're compared with equal fuel loading.

This particular R Bike had been set up with mountings for Trax rear cases (like used on the Stelvio), which I like a lot.  It also has other features, added by the PO, that fit my riding needs nicely.  I've spent the last few months getting it ready for the coming riding season -- tires, pads, belt, fluid changes, accessory wiring, add the Rostra CC, etc, etc.  I've also ridden it 2K miles so far.  It's different than the Stelvio but we're bonding nicely.  I've had Beemers before (actually, 4 of them), and understand their quirks.

That's all for now.  Ride safe out there.

[brlawson]

Chuck, that's a girls bike..

[frans belgium]

I understand exactly. 

Glad somebody does, I felt like a sissys

I began looking for a lighter replacement.  In the Guzzi ranks, the V7 and V7II are too small for me and my intended loading -- this is not an engine size issue, the bikes are just physically too much smaller.

My feelings exactly


I could always go back to a 650 Strom (or similar bike) but didn't want to deal with a chain again.

Which is probably the one I'll end up with, or the Beemer 700 gs.  And yes, a chain.  Not good.  But part of the solution (weight)

[Kev m]

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE MY V7.

But I TOTALLY GET what you guys are saying.

I DO NOT ride 2-up on it. It's just not a big enough/comfortable enough chassis for that with me.

I can also see why some people (especially if they're smaller stature) might be comfortable 2-up on it... but not me.

[leafman60]

I understand exactly.  My '12 Stelvio is a great touring bike but, after three years and 32K miles, it's getting a bit too heavy for me to manage comfortably/confidently, when loaded, and I don't want to chance dropping it.

I began looking for a lighter replacement.  In the Guzzi ranks, the V7 and V7II are too small for me and my intended loading -- this is not an engine size issue, the bikes are just physically too much smaller.  I could always go back to a 650 Strom (or similar bike) but didn't want to deal with a chain again.  So I ended up finding a decent '07 BMW R1200R, a legitimate 100# lighter than the Stelvio, even when they're compared with equal fuel loading.

This particular R Bike had been set up with mountings for Trax rear cases (like used on the Stelvio), which I like a lot.  It also has other features, added by the PO, that fit my riding needs nicely.  I've spent the last few months getting it ready for the coming riding season -- tires, pads, belt, fluid changes, accessory wiring, add the Rostra CC, etc, etc.  I've also ridden it 2K miles so far.  It's different than the Stelvio but we're bonding nicely.  I've had Beemers before (actually, 4 of them), and understand their quirks.

That's all for now.  Ride safe out there.

Hi Chuck!  Sorry we missed Swampscooters this year!

I understand what you're saying about the BMW 1200R.  It certainly meets the size desires you have.  It's also a fast motorcycle (not that such is a main factor).  I hope it gives you a long life of good service.

If you have ABS on the BMW and it ever goes out, don't let the dealers sell you the $2000+ new pump. Send your old pump to Module Master and they'll rebuild and warranty it for a small fraction of the replacement cost.

http://modulemaster.com/rebuilds/

I'm sure you are getting plugged into the BMW forum sites and can be aware of other issues that hopefully will not affect you.

I like the performance of those bikes and the R model was often overlooked as one of the best buys in the BMW line-up.

Good luck and good riding.

[Bill Havins]

FB,

I have posted similar sentiments several times.  I tried the California 1400 but decided the seat height and center of gravity were still just a bit too high for me to feel comfortable; we tour two-up a lot.

In October I bought a Honda Valkyrie - it was my first bike other than a Guzzi since 1979!  I can flatfoot easily when on the Honda.  It has the power I want for making those long highway hauls across West Texas.  And it is not that much heavier than my old EV; the center of gravity is down at about calf level even with a full tank of gas so, at low speeds, it actually feels lighter than the EV.

The problem with the Valkyrie is there are very few touring accessories for it.  But I am working on that.  I now have a very nice chromed luggage rack on the bike and a backrest that really fits the "roadster character" of the machine.  I am still in process of solving the touring windshield issue; what Honda has available is horrible.  I have panniers on the way from Corbin.

I agree with your post - Guzzi has little to offer for shorter riders who are getting a little older and want to feel more "in control" when touring two-up.  I found what works pretty well for me.  After the summer I'll let you know my "final verdict" of my purchase.

Good luck!

Bill

[ChuckH]

Chuck, that's a girls bike.. 

Good Morning Bruce, it's good to hear from you.

As far as the R Bike -- it's ~1 1/4" shorter WB than the Stelvio with more upright forks and 17" rubber on both ends, 180 size on the rear.  It handles tight, twisty stuff better and can still move well in the long sweepers (the Stelvio's cup-of-tea).  This bike was equipped with Ohlins on both ends, so it handles a lot like a sport bike with rear cases.  The two bikes are geared about the same -- 4000 in 5th is 61 MPH, 4000 in 6th is 71 MPH (GPS readings).  The Beemer has the Hex-Head engine (I think that's the nomenclature) and it revs very easily, probably quicker than the Stelvio, with certainly less vibration in the h'bars.  The shorter WB translates into a little tighter compartment for me and my gear (about an inch shorter), but the space is very adequate.  This bike was equipped with a Russel DL, so long distance riding is easily in the picture.

About all for now.  Hope to see you down the road this year.  Are you planning on John Day in June?

Ride safe.

[kingoffleece]

Don't overlook the Rocket 3 Touring.  Huge fun to ride.

[Travlr]

Here's what I did when I couldn't find a midsize touring bike I liked.

Buy a Tonti classic and bring it up to snuff.
Weight and hp are what you are looking for.
Start with a Strada.  Maybe a Spada.  (I've always liked this convert.)
By the time you finish you'll have less in it than a new bike.

FWIW I tour on my '93 Spada.  It'll go around the world.
I know plenty of guys who tour on Tonti's.
Probably more reliable, and long lasting, than a new CARC.

M


 


 

[johnr]

On a recent Guzzi rally here Frans my Breva ended up with both me and JohnR on it, scaling in at over 200kgs. John ended up on the front with me on the back as I was somewhat lighter. He thought that it would struggle but came to the conclusion that it went darn well and how do I keep it below 130kph. The smallblocks do tend to punch above their weight.

More than 200 kgs I would say. I provide 112 kg on my own, then there is the bike then Muzz having a snooze on the back.

I just refuse to believe that a 750 is not up to the Job Frans. I mean, the design brief that the BSA engineers were given for my  Rocket3 was that it had to sit on a US motorway, 2 up and with camping gear, at 100mph all day and every day.  It was only a 750!  Mind you that was considered fairly gimungus in those days) 

It's only perception that denies this. Get a decent set of bags and a carrier, perhaps some Ikon shocks, and you and wife are away giggling hysterically on a far more versatile bike than the Norge.

[jas67]

Some people DO want a midsize/midclass bike.

The F800GT fits this class nicely, and unlike a V-Strom 650, VFR800 (Interceptor), and many other bikes in this weight class is not chain drive, it is belt drive.

I haven't ridden it two up yet, as my daughter lost interest in riding with me before i got it, but, just looking at the seat and pegs, etc, I'd say it is as room as the Breva 1100 that I sold to get it.     It is certainly roomier for two up than the V7 series.

Reach to the ground with the standard seat is similar, if not slightly lower than the B11 (also with standard seat).  BMW do offer a low seat for it, but, I'm not sure how much lower it is.

[George_S]

Check out a Honda NT700V. Not a current model in the U.S., but there are used deals out there. Great mid-size tourer with the built-in bags. As boring as a Honda Accord, but exactly as reliable.

[Kev m]

I just refuse to believe that a 750 is not up to the Job Frans.

He didn't say the bike wasn't up to the task, he said he desires something with different dimensions.

Check out a Honda NT700V. Not a current model in the U.S., but there are used deals out there. Great mid-size tourer with the built-in bags. As boring as a Honda Accord, but exactly as reliable.

It may be mid-sized in weight and engine size, but it was a TALL bike. I don't think that's necessarily going to address his needs.

[MGPilot]

Certainly would be interesting to see a "Norge" version of the V7II that would more directly compete with the F800GT.

[canuguzzi]

The solution isn't making do with a 750 anything, it is so obvious. One can make do with just about anything but is that touring or just getting by?

Getting an older bike too is just that, an older bike so why when new bikes are available? If everyone is going to ride an older Guzzi, then no one is buying new ones so why exist?

Owner after owner is voting with their money, a 500 lb or less bike on the 80-90 HP range would do it, not an 850 making the same power as a 750 and yes, even a very low HP engine will move a large car but is running up a hill fully laden at full throttle fun just to ride  MG? Not really.

Touring with the least bike possible isn't touring, it is getting by.

MG has the designs, the Norge and Stelvio. Just put them on a diet and sell them for asking instead of nearly half price.

[jas67]

Certainly would be interesting to see a "Norge" version of the V7II that would more directly compete with the F800GT.

Agreed, but, while many of us smallblock believers (myself included) would buy it, it would be a tough sell in the "more power is better" market against the 90 HP F800GT.     I think to truly compete against it, the Norge Light would need to have at least 70 or 75 HP.    Maybe the V9 engine with a 4 valve head might do it?

[MGPilot]

...Touring with the least bike possible isn't touring, it is getting by.

Sounds a little like saying, the only real truck is an F-250, there's no reason to produce a Ranger.

[segesta]

If money is burning a hole in your pocket, check out the new MV Agusta Lusso Veloce, 800 cc of midsize ultra high tech sport touring.

[George_S]

He didn't say the bike wasn't up to the task, he said he desires something with different dimensions.

It may be mid-sized in weight and engine size, but it was a TALL bike. I don't think that's necessarily going to address his needs.

Lots of low seat options, there is room for that,  and if that wasn't enough, I know a couple guys that had the Honda dealer handle it and it was able to be lowered a lot. Nobody is forever stuck with a bike the way it comes from the factory you know....

[Kev m]

Lots of low seat options, there is room for that,  and if that wasn't enough, I know a couple guys that had the Honda dealer handle it and it was able to be lowered a lot. Nobody is forever stuck with a bike the way it comes from the factory you know....

Good points, though I have to wonder if it would be "enough" but I guess he's the only one who can say that.

[frans belgium]

The solution isn't making do with a 750 anything, it is so obvious. One can make do with just about anything but is that touring or just getting by?

Getting an older bike too is just that, an older bike so why when new bikes are available? If everyone is going to ride an older Guzzi, then no one is buying new ones so why exist?

Owner after owner is voting with their money, a 500 lb or less bike on the 80-90 HP range would do it, not an 850 making the same power as a 750 and yes, even a very low HP engine will move a large car but is running up a hill fully laden at full throttle fun just to ride  MG? Not really.

Touring with the least bike possible isn't touring, it is getting by.

MG has the designs, the Norge and Stelvio. Just put them on a diet and sell them for asking instead of nearly half price.

My idea exactly.  Thing is you say it a lot better than I could.
I don't want a 40 year old Guzzi. I want a new one. Nor do I want a small 750 with 45 bhp to carry around two "healthy" grown ups and full luggage in the Ardennes.  Or a bobber with an non existant back seat.  So what MG model is left that does the trick and does not weigh at least 600 lbs or more?
Nothing, I guess.  Quod erat demonstrandum.
Problem is Piaggio has the solution.
The Aprilia Mana would be an option of course, but in a very childish way (I admit), I give Piaggio the finger for the stepmotherly way they treat MG. Piaggio never was the solution for MG, it is part of the problem.  My 2cts.

[JeffOlson]

The Bobber is not the only V9 variant. There is also the Roamer, and better two-up seating will be available shortly:

[kingoffleece]

Yes, I did, as a bit of humor.

[lost]

If you want low seat height look at the Yamaha V Star 950 Tourer.

[LowRyter]

After more than 15 years of riding MG, I'm forced to look elsewhere for a new bike.
Been riding Florida, Nevada, California, Breva and now Norge. With age however, Norge + passenger + luggage have become more than a handful, especially since I have to tiptoe it - being vertically challenged 
No problems riding it, but slow maneuvering and treacherous situations became a bit of a problem.  No more feeling 100% at ease. You know the drill.
Therefore I wanted a lighter and nimbler bike, yet capable of touring me and my wife around with enough ergos and torque. We are no lightweights.  I fixed all my hopes on a possible upgrade of the V7 and they gave me the V9 bobber instead, which is exactly the opposite of what I was looking for.
So Guzzi seems to have nothing between 200 and 300 kg or between 50 and 100 bhp.
I already see myself riding a ....(Beemer, Suzuki, Triumph, Aprila  ....) wearing my Guzzi stuff. Sigh..
This is a crying shame.  Wake up Guzzi.  Some people DO want a midsize/midclass bike.

what's wrong with the new V9 being an update to the V7?   Usually Guzzi offers bags and windshields as options.  If not, there is always the aftermarket. 

[canuguzzi]

Sounds a little like saying, the only real truck is an F-250, there's no reason to produce a Ranger.

Hardly. Just because a Ranger is produced, that doesn't mean someone who doesn't feel comfortable in a F250 is going to buy it. There is something called the F150.

MG has the smaller bike, the V7 and the larger bikes like the Norge, Stelvio and the cruisers. That means the entire market looking for something in between is ignored. Ok, then people like the OP just abandon the brand and buy something else. Another customer lost but who is counting?

It would be one thing if more than a V7 and less than a Norge/Stelvio wasn't possible but that isn't remotely the case, not only is it possible but it sells and others have figured out how to do it.

How many of us have one car? Yet so often we hear that the V7 can do this and that. Well, so can a SMART car but do you really want to tour in one?

The OP clearly stated what he wanted a bike to do. He didn't say he wanted the minimalist approach to doing it. For many people, doing with the least possible isn't the way to go.

On WG seems the very first thing we forget is what the OP stated or asked for. That probably comes from the only answers possible being a V7 or what replaced it and everything else much heavier or much older.