1999 Moto Guzzi Bassa V11 shifter issues

[BigVic54]

I just bought a 1999 Guzzi Bassa V11 California.  The PO used a bungie on the shift lever to return it to neutral.  I can shift through all the gears but the shifter won't return.  I've looked at other postings but couldn't find any information.

I would appreciate any help.

[fotoguzzi]

probably a broken shift return spring, someone else here will have the solution soon.

But welcome, the 99 Bassa is a great bike.. what color? mileage?

[redrider]

Really easy to replace. My Café Sport did the same thing without warning. A couple of hours wrenching. Remove the starter and rear shock remote reservoir. Everything is in the outer cover. The finicky part is making sure the shifter gears are timed correctly. I began with the tranny in neutral.

[normzone]

" I just bought a 1999 Guzzi Bassa V11 California "

Brother !

I had a similar problem in my old Eldo, [fotoguzzi]'s probably correct.

Until you get around to fixing it, just invest in the coolest looking bungee you can find.

Or perhaps a bedspring and some spray paint.

[pehayes]

Really easy to replace. My Caf� Sport did the same thing without warning. A couple of hours wrenching.

Sorry, bad news.  The Cafe Sport uses the six speed with the return spring under a side cover.  However, the Bassa has the older 5-speed with the spring internal to the transmission.  You will need to remove the transmission from the engine which pretty much requires removing most of the rest of the moto.  Then you will need a set of special wrenches for the output shaft nut.  Spring is cheap.  Replacing it is simple.  Getting to it is hours and hours of work.  Would be good to have someone experienced nearby to coach you with the transmission bits.

Read this report on "crabbing the frame".

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzitech.dk/pdf/access-gearbox-clutch-big-twin-en-2004-07-04.pdf

BTW, your profile doesn't indicate where you are.  Let us know.  Perhaps someone nearby has the tools and expertise.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[rocker59]

Really easy to replace. My Café Sport did the same thing without warning. A couple of hours wrenching. Remove the starter and rear shock remote reservoir. Everything is in the outer cover. The finicky part is making sure the shifter gears are timed correctly. I began with the tranny in neutral.

That is true only on the V11 Sport/LeMans 6-speeds.

On the California 5-speeds, transmission will need to be removed, in order to access the shift return spring.

[BigVic54]

I do like the idea of the nicest looking bungie I can find.  I'm not in the mood to pull the tranny.  I'm going to take a good look at the linkage.  I'm hoping to do this with the least work but I know how that goes.

Thank you for your responses.

[Wayne Orwig]

Really easy to replace. My Caf� Sport did the same thing without warning. A couple of hours wrenching. Remove the starter and rear shock remote reservoir. Everything is in the outer cover. The finicky part is making sure the shifter gears are timed correctly. I began with the tranny in neutral.

This fix will not apply to a Tonti 5 speed.

Figure about 8 hours labor to get the transmission out and back in. Add a couple of hours to replace the spring and any seals.
Sorry, no quick fix here.

[pehayes]

I do like the idea of the nicest looking bungie I can find.

How would you like the look of a 1" piece of hardened steel being sucked up between the teeth of your gears?  Not likely, but it sure would be nasty if the broken off piece doesn't just sit quietly in the corner.  After draining the oil, you MIGHT be able to fish some form of magnet in there and retrieve the broken piece.  Crowded spaces.   I suggest that you plan to replace it.  Bike is functional, but worthless in the current condition.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[twhitaker]

I had a needle bearing in the Cali transmission come apart. One of the pins punched a hole in the back cover and another got in between 5th gears. After removing tranny, paying $500, and re-installing same, the bike runs fine.

[BigVic54]

How would you like the look of a 1" piece of hardened steel being sucked up between the teeth of your gears?  Not likely, but it sure would be nasty if the broken off piece doesn't just sit quietly in the corner.  After draining the oil, you MIGHT be able to fish some form of magnet in there and retrieve the broken piece.  Crowded spaces.   I suggest that you plan to replace it.  Bike is functional, but worthless in the current condition.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

How is a bad spring going to cause pieces to break off?

[twhitaker]

If it is the spring I'm thinking it is a torsion spring shaped kind of like a bobby pin. Usually when they break one of the legs falls and gets in the way somewhere.

[pehayes]

This is your shift return spring installed onto the pre-selector.  One of the two 'arms' has snapped off about an inch or so and the piece is now laying in the bottom of your transmission.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[twhitaker]

Some work involved getting to the rascal.

[normzone]

Wow, I recognize that spring from my Eldo days.

Crabbing the frame is mandatory to pull the trans ? My next Guzzi might be another loop frame.

On the other hand, I rode my Eldo just by nudging the shifter back to neutral with my toe for a year or more, and the spring fragment behaved nicely and stayed out of the moving expensive bits while it waited for me. Some clever magnet on a wire work might be a good investment though.

[BigVic54]

This is your shift return spring installed onto the pre-selector.  One of the two 'arms' has snapped off about an inch or so and the piece is now laying in the bottom of your transmission.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

I understand what you're saying.

Another member suggested trying to fish the metal part out with a magnet. Is this possible?  Is the only danger that of metal in the trany?  I can make the shifter work with a spring until I pull the trans.

[pehayes]

I understand what you're saying.  Another member suggested trying to fish the metal part out with a magnet. Is this possible?  Is the only danger that of metal in the trany?  I can make the shifter work with a spring until I pull the trans.

Your only risk is that the broken piece bounces into the gears.  It is lying in a deep puddle of oil so that is unlikely, but it would do a LOT of damage if it happened.  Bought any lottery tickets lately?  As for the magnet, if you could actually fish the piece out that would be HUGE peace of mind.  However, there are a great many steel pieces in there which will try to grab the magnet.  It might be safe where it lies and then you'd magnet it into a more dangerous location.  You could fish from the fill plug, the level plug, the neutral switch hole, the bottom drain plug hole.  I think your version might have an extra or second drain plug at the bottom/rear of the rear cover of the transmission.  That last one might be almost directly below where the spring resides and would be the most likely source of attack to where the broken piece is now laying.  Direct attack access might be blocked by the swingarm but it is not too many minutes work to get that out of the way.  Who knows?

Would be nice to hear a report from someone who had success doing that.  Anybody?

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[BigVic54]

Your only risk is that the broken piece bounces into the gears.  It is lying in a deep puddle of oil so that is unlikely, but it would do a LOT of damage if it happened.  Bought any lottery tickets lately?  As for the magnet, if you could actually fish the piece out that would be HUGE peace of mind.  However, there are a great many steel pieces in there which will try to grab the magnet.  It might be safe where it lies and then you'd magnet it into a more dangerous location.  You could fish from the fill plug, the level plug, the neutral switch hole, the bottom drain plug hole.  I think your version might have an extra or second drain plug at the bottom/rear of the rear cover of the transmission.  That last one might be almost directly below where the spring resides and would be the most likely source of attack to where the broken piece is now laying.  Direct attack access might be blocked by the swingarm but it is not too many minutes work to get that out of the way.  Who knows?



Would be nice to hear a report from someone who had success doing that.  Anybody?

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Thank you for your time and advice. I'll keep you up to date on developments.

Vic Bondi

[Chuck in Indiana]

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wmr-w50045

An inspection camera with grabbers and magnet. I have one of these for inspecting airplanes. You *might* be able to fish it through the fill or drain plug and get it out.
I've had Tonti transmissions out before, so take this with a grain of salt, but I can have the transmission on the bench in about 2 hours. Pull the rear cover on the transmission, and replace the spring.. you'll be glad you did.

[BigVic54]

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wmr-w50045

An inspection camera with grabbers and magnet. I have one of these for inspecting airplanes. You *might* be able to fish it through the fill or drain plug and get it out.
I've had Tonti transmissions out before, so take this with a grain of salt, but I can have the transmission on the bench in about 2 hours. Pull the rear cover on the transmission, and replace the spring.. you'll be glad you did.

After looking at the parts Manual and the shop manual it looks like the trans has a rear cover that can be accessed after "crabbing" the frame.  Do I actually have to remove the entire trans or can I just remove this cover for inspection, removal of the broken part and installation of the new spring?

[twhitaker]

I don't think the cover will go back on in the horizontal mode. It will have the shafts connected to it.

Once you've gotten it to the point where you can remove the cover, removing the whole tranny is the next step.

[pehayes]

Once you remove the rear cover, you will see FIVE shafts inside.  Some have gears, some have other things like shifting forks and the shifter drum.  In the horizontal position, these will all tend to 'hang' down at various angles.  There is no way you could get them back to alignment to install the cover.  It is all so much easier and more accurate with the transmission out on the bench and sitting vertically on its nose.  Actually, once you have crabbed the frame it is probably not more than 5 minutes to unbolt and pull the frame.  If you don't disassemble the clutch, the repaired transmission should pop right back on in 5 minutes.  If you do disassemble the clutch, you'll need a special re-alignment tool before the transmission will go back on.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[BigVic54]

Once you remove the rear cover, you will see FIVE shafts inside.  Some have gears, some have other things like shifting forks and the shifter drum.  In the horizontal position, these will all tend to 'hang' down at various angles.  There is no way you could get them back to alignment to install the cover.  It is all so much easier and more accurate with the transmission out on the bench and sitting vertically on its nose.  Actually, once you have crabbed the frame it is probably not more than 5 minutes to unbolt and pull the frame.  If you don't disassemble the clutch, the repaired transmission should pop right back on in 5 minutes.  If you do disassemble the clutch, you'll need a special re-alignment tool before the transmission will go back on.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Thank you.

[twhitaker]

Crabbing the frame is mandatory to pull the trans ? My next Guzzi might be another loop frame.

Not any better but there will be a lot fewer electrical connections to deal with. You will be removing the transmission and motor as one unit.

[Chuck in Indiana]

It's easy, just do it. After you do it, you'll wonder why you were worried.

[Curtis Harper]

The return spring on the late 5 speeds rarely breaks. Not to say it won't but it is not near as prevalent on the 98+ bikes. Before you tear it all apart, check the tightness of the linkage on the shift shaft at the back of the trans.  I'm not an engineer so I can't splain it, but on some of the bikes when they are loose, it will shift up but not back down due to the direction of the force. Not sure if that is your problem but it's worth checking. If it's loose, you have to get to it thru the battery compartment. There is a hole in the tray right above the linkage that you can get a long allen wrench thru.

[Kiwi_Roy]

What Curtis says makes lots of sense to me, if the spring is indeed broken the lever won't spring back into the neutral position.

[BigVic54]

Thanks, guys.  I'll adjust the linkage and see what happens.