Out of State Norge Purchase

[Jerryd]

I'm buying a Norge from a seller in California and having it shipped to me in Florida. The seller, who is probably known here, claims he needs a copy of my Drivers License to file a release with California. I may be a bit overly concerned about sending him a copy of my Driver's License, but I've bought and sold bikes from sellers in other states and never run across this? Is it just something unique to California?

Jerry

[Chuck in Indiana]

California has some weird plate laws.. the plate follows the vehicle, I think. I'd ask the California DMV. <shrug>

[rocker59]

As I understand it, when the owner goes to the DMV to remove the bike from his name, he needs to be able to prove who it sold to.

[Jerryd]

As I understand it, when the owner goes to the DMV to remove the bike from his name, he needs to be able to prove who it sold to.

So, I guess he needs a copy of my DL to prove that?

Is there someone from California here that knows for sure?

[canuguzzi]

Do not be concerned with this seller if its that Black Norge. A stand up guy. I met him, looked at the bike. If you are buying that bike or any other, it is proper to know who is buying it and he must file a release of liability, required by law. To file it, he must be absolutely certain to whom liability is being released.

If he releases liability to the wrong person, he has a problem because he can no longer release it to the right person.

He is well known by other Guzzi riders in the Bay Area.

A copy of your DL suffices. At the same time, request a copy of his so you know that you are communicating with the right person.

Yes, the plates follow the vehicle in California. When you register the Norge in your state, your DMV can send the plates back to Ca . or if they don't take them, there are momentos.



Avoid the shxt happens scenario.

If you need any help,  let me know.

[canuguzzi]

I think the DL is overkill, but he may just be cautious.

I sold a bike and failed to file the "Release of Liability" form.  The state continued to send me license plate renewal notices.  If the guy/bike had been involved in any illegal activity, it could have been a lot worse.  To fix the problem, I simply submitted the form with the new owner's name and address on it.  The DL wasn't required.

Here is what happens if you don't submit a proper release of liability, they are facts and it has happened to a lot of people who blow it off.

The release of liability asks for the name and address of the new owner, he is supposed to guess or just accept the word of someone they do not know, haven't seen and likely never will?

Things happen which is the purpose of the release of liability. The transfer iof title does not release liability.

I don't know why information that doesn't follow what the law requires would be given as advice or even suggested in any way. Nothing good can come from it.

Why start out with a potential problem?

Would you not show your DL when you buy a bike at the dealer or from someone in person? Then what is the issue with a copy sent to someone for a remote purchase? I don't get it .

If the concern is so great that it becomes a problem, then perhaps that is reason enough not to do it.

Simply send a copy on which is written what the copy can be used for, write that on the image of the DL. If they want to do something with the copy, they can easily get one from a variety of illegal sources for $10.

The new owner gets into an accident, guess who retains.liability if the vehicle had a mechanical defect? That would be you.

They cross a bridge and don't pay the toll. You pay unless you can prove who you sold it to. If you then do not prove to whom you sold it and don't pay the toll, they will rescind the registration of all your other vehicles in California. Eventually they will go after your driver license.

Anything that incurs a liability remains with: You.

The seller is sending a bike to someone they do not know, a DL isn't overkill, it is smart and he is protecting both sides of the transaction.

Plenty of people have found out what happens when they fail to do what the seller is asking for. It happens all the time and can get very expensive.

[Jerryd]

Do not be concerned with this seller if its that Black Norge. A stand up guy. I met him, looked at the bike. If you are buying that bike or any other, it is proper to know who is buying it and he must file a release of liability, required by law. To file it, he must be absolutely certain to whom liability is being released.

If he releases liability to the wrong person, he has a problem because he can no longer release it to the right person.

He is well known by other Guzzi riders in the Bay Area.

A copy of your DL suffices. At the same time, request a copy of his so you know that you are communicating with the right person.

Yes, the plates follow the vehicle in California. When you register the Norge in your state, your DMV can send the plates back to Ca . or if they don't take them, there are momentos.



Avoid the shxt happens scenario.

If you need any help,  let me know.

Yes, it is the black one you checked for me. This is just unusual for me and I've bought and sold a lot of bikes and cars and lived in many states. I guess its just one of those unique California things!

I sent him a copy of my DL.

[canuguzzi]

Yes, it is the black one you checked for me. This is just unusual for me and I've bought and sold a lot of bikes and cars and lived in many states. I guess its just one of those unique California things!

I sent him a copy of my DL.

You are getting a really nice Norge. The owner knows MG bikes and not from the side if a cleaning bonnet.

As nitpicky as I am, attested to by legions here, were I in the market for a first gen Norge, I'd buy it.

Do ask for photos immediate before crating by the shipper. If you can't manage that, I'll do it for you if schedules can match.

[Jerryd]

You are getting a really nice Norge. The owner knows MG bikes and not from the side if a cleaning bonnet.

As nitpicky as I am, attested to by legions here, were I in the market for a first gen Norge, I'd buy it.

Do ask for photos immediate before crating by the shipper. If you can't manage that, I'll do it for you if schedules can match.

Thanks for the offer, but I think were all set. The shipper goes through a checklist with the seller. By the way, I'm using HaulBikes, they have a winter promotion of $400 door to door anywhere in the country. Can't beat that!

[kmartin]

It's a moot point now, but I've sold many motorcycles and a few cars in Ca and never had a need for a drivers license.  I usually have the buyer fill out his name and address on the form, but after filing with DMV have not had anything come back to me.  I always keep a copy for a few years to be sure.

[PJPR01]

Thanks for the offer, but I think were all set. The shipper goes through a checklist with the seller. By the way, I'm using HaulBikes, they have a winter promotion of $400 door to door anywhere in the country. Can't beat that!

That's a great deal!!

[vstevens]

I sold a motor scooter in California.  The new owner did something illegal and the scoot got impounded.  He didn't register it in his name.  I got a letter to appear in court because the scoot was still registered to me.  Once I showed the judge that I had in fact filed change of liability, he apologized for the inconvenience and cleared it up.  The take home message is to just do it right. 

[Cool Runnings]

So, who owns 'the bike', you OR the State? 

[canuguzzi]

So, who owns 'the bike', you OR the State? 

You own it. The release of liability protects the PO. It is fairly common for someone to buy a used vehicle and then not register it in their name. They ride or drive using the POs registration, especially if it out of state or the registration has quite some time on it.

There you are, you sell your bike to someone who appears right. There is 9 months of registration time left on it. They give you the cash and then take off. You fail to release liability to them. They are riding around for the next 9 months on your registration even though you signed the title over to them. Giving them the title doesn't mean the DMV knows about it. Releasing liability puts you in the clear no matter what they do with the bike.

Lots of people also buy a vehicle and then resell it and now you have no idea who really owns it but yet you haven't release liability. That third person does something like runs drugs or who knows what. While you can eventually clear things up, in the meantime there can be a knock on the door or worse, someone searches the legal owner and it shows up as you. Guess where they send the summons?

Since you no longer have the title in hand and the new buyer didn't register it you are the one answering questions. How are you going to prove you even sold it if it was a cash deal? The third person hits someone and takes off. A witness sees the bike and records the license plate. Everything comes back to you and now you are in the position to prove you sold it.

In the meantime, you've cancelled the insurance and the new owner didn't buy any. That hit and run now is a real headache for you, especially if you don't have their info anymore.

Ownership and liability are two different things. Transferring ownership doesn't always transfer liability because you can own a motorcycle yet not be the one riding it.

It can be a real mess.

In the case of a hit and run, you'd end up trying to prove it wasn't you who was riding the bike. Innocent until proved guilty but there is the easy way and hard way.

[Caffeineo]

When I was in college I sold a car and did not file the liability release. This was.....in the early 80's. A friend told me this person got upset at me as someone told them they paid way too much. So they went on a mission to collect parking tickets all over San Francisco. The registration renewal was sent to me with hundreds of $$$$ of parking ticket fines included. I tossed it in the trash and never heard about it again.  Of course that was then and this is now....maybe things have changed.
 

[calfruit]

In 1972 while going to college in San Jose Ca, I was short of money to finish the school year and sold my 1963 Falcon, for $300.00 . Knowing nothing about the release of lability, I happily finish the school year drinking $.25 beer at the local pub. After school ended I moved home ( where the car had been registered) one Sun morning there was a knock on the door at 3AM, a very loud knock, then over the loud speaker I was summoned outside. Looking out the window the street was ablaze in flashing red lights.  To make a long story short, the person to whom I sold the car, never registered it into his name.

He too just have been short on cash. As the car was used in an armed robbery on So Cal. I was the guest of the city that night .  Everything was straightened out the next day.

In Calif  you can now file a release of liability online.  Do it.

[arveno]

bought two bikes in cali , i am in NY , plate came with the bike but they never asked for my DL

but hey call the dmv and ask.

[canuguzzi]

The seller, not the buyer completes the release of liability in California. Advising the seller (OP) to file it makes no sense because he can't do it.

The question isn't what the buyer's DMV wants, it is about what the seller needs to do, its clearly stated in the OP. California requires a release of liability, the reasons are easy enough to understand. If you want to just not do it fine, advising someone else not to do it is irresponsible.

California cities often use collection agencies to go after you for unpaid parking tickets. They can and will create problems for you and eventually you'll find out you can't register any of your other vehicles.

California will also eventually contact the Franchise tax board to deal with you.

Why does anyone want to game a system instead of just filing out a simple form and avoiding problem? 

If you sell a motorcycle and don't ask to see the buyers driver license you aren't protecting yourself and Darwin comes calling but hey, it's your choice.

If you buy a motorcycle and don't ask to see the seller's driver license the same applies.

What is so difficult about just doing something the right way instead of the other way?

[George_S]

I've always exchanged text photos of our driver licenses whether I was a long distance buyer or a seller. Gives both parties added peace of mind. I don't feel there's anything weird or anything to be concerned about even without the liability release issue.