Look through the other end. . . NGC

[HardAspie]

So, at one point the ugly truth hit me. The pittance I will have does not allow me the purchase of a Moto Guzzi V7. Off I went on the quest for a motorcycle that I could afford to both own and run and which would allow remaining funds for other things of life like clothing and food and dentistry'

This was not a satisfactory quest as the bikes I found were unsatisfactory. But then I thought that perhaps I was looking through the wrong end of the telescope. What might happen if rather than wondering, "What is the most bike I can possibly get?"; I pondered instead, "What would be the minimum bike that would do what I need done?"

I had an inspiration and went to You Tube and typed in a very strange phrase. Lo and behold! People tour on mopeds, and they do so over hundreds of kilometres. Indeed, they seem to have about as much sheer fun as one can have on two wheels. And, there are even such groups of eccentrics here in the U S of A. But I considered that I do need some freeway / interstate capability. While I do not love riding or driving on them there are places where such highways are the only way between points.  I have just such a stretch in my back yard. Gotta get over the hump at Camp Verde lest I be stuck here in the Verde Valley when snow and ice plagues the high country otherwise surrounding me.

So a Goose son't be happening. But a Wolf should, and I think soon. And it is a motorcycle and I am happy.

And I plan to stay here and plague you wonderful people for a long time.

[fotoguzzi]

what is a wolf?

My friend Jack rode a 50cc moped to Sturgiss and back.. 1200+ miles
not good for freeways but my city bike is plenty fun,

[HardAspie]

Little bikes are fun. The Wolf is the S-Y-M Wolf Classic 150. It is what happens when a Honda licensee takes over production of CB 125 and improves it:
150cc / 15 HP
Will cruise at 60 mph
266 lb wet
Owners say they last forever
Here are some photos:
http://www.alliancepowersports.com/models/wolf_gallery.html

[BMWDavid]

That is a cool fun looking bike! I'm sure you'll have loads of fun riding it. I might have to look at one myself just for knocking around on.

[M0T0Geezer]

Nothing wrong with smaller bikes, in whatever affordable conformation they may take.

An absolutely credible touring machine was my 400cc Majesty scooter.  Proof:

http://dansher.com/bikepix/2011May/index.html

Ditto wifes 250cc Reflex scooter.

[HardAspie]

That was a great trip, MOTOGeeezer. Thank you for sharing that.
I had a Honda NS 250 Reflex and made a desert crossing from Central Aridzona to Southern California and back. It did just fine. The way I figure it, if small is what I can afford, then small is what I will do, and love.

[Guzzidad]

   Couple years ago I met a couple of guys who rode their Honda Helixes to the Swamp Scooters rally. All the way from Indiana to Louisiana. I like the Helix. They're selling for around $1500 now and they're a stone ax reliable Honda.

[HardAspie]

That is right. Honda replaced the Helix with the Reflex, but then put Helix back into production after a couple of years. The Reflex had some definite issues that were not shared with the Helix. I found several of those issues in the time I owned mine.

[CalVin2007]

 I know you don't want a used machine,Laura...but this '81 SilverWing is what I consider a good one.

   http://images.craigslist.org/00202_6qkUKQNf9If_600x450.jpg

   Here's the link:    http://wichita.craigslist.org/mcy/5445884389.html

[Sheepdog]

Facing the same quandary as you, my 6'2" friend Jim found himself a 2012 Honda CBR250RA (ABS) with only 800 miles on it...for $3K. That bike will do anything a V7 will do, albeit a little slower and without quite as much style. I wouldn't hesitate to take it any distance...it will easily do Interstates. Hepco Becker even offers some pretty cool C-Bow removable luggage for the little CBR. I consider this bike to be the best value available for a full-sized motorcycle experience...

[Triple Jim]

CalVin2007 and Sheepdog have a similar ideas to mine.  The most I ever spent on a motorcycle is $2,500, and that was for my 1989 Moto Guzzi Mille GT.  My 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250 was $1,100 last year.  If I were on a very tight budget and wanted the most motorcycle for my money, I'm pretty sure I'd go with a used Ninja 250.  It's a "crotch rocket" only in appearance, and riding position is quite upright compared to the big Ninjas.  The plastic comes off if you don't like it.  It gets about 65 mpg, and will go an honest 100 mph if you want to for some reason.  Handling is excellent, and it weighs somewhere around 330 lbs with a fairly low seat height.

I bought it so my daughter could ride, and I was surprised to find out how much I like to ride it too.

[Joe A.]

That is a great looking bike! best of luck to you!!

[giusto]

So, at one point the ugly truth hit me. The pittance I will have does not allow me the purchase of a Moto Guzzi V7. Off I went on the quest for a motorcycle that I could afford to both own and run and which would allow remaining funds for other things of life like clothing and food and dentistry'

This was not a satisfactory quest as the bikes I found were unsatisfactory. But then I thought that perhaps I was looking through the wrong end of the telescope. What might happen if rather than wondering, "What is the most bike I can possibly get?"; I pondered instead, "What would be the minimum bike that would do what I need done?"

I had an inspiration and went to You Tube and typed in a very strange phrase. Lo and behold! People tour on mopeds, and they do so over hundreds of kilometres. Indeed, they seem to have about as much sheer fun as one can have on two wheels. And, there are even such groups of eccentrics here in the U S of A. But I considered that I do need some freeway / interstate capability. While I do not love riding or driving on them there are places where such highways are the only way between points.  I have just such a stretch in my back yard. Gotta get over the hump at Camp Verde lest I be stuck here in the Verde Valley when snow and ice plagues the high country otherwise surrounding me.

So a Goose son't be happening. But a Wolf should, and I think soon. And it is a motorcycle and I am happy.

And I plan to stay here and plague you wonderful people for a long time.

Thanks for the perspective...very refreshing!! and introducing me to this motorcycle that I have somehow oblivious to. I have always loved the early CB's....my first bike was a 74 CL 360 and I loved it. I have another I just found on CL last year for really cheap....fun on the Michigan gravel roads but I wouldn't ride it cross country.
I cruised you tube for the wolf and really dig this bike. I'd love to hear about your travels should you get one.
Keep us posted.

[TodkaVonic]

Is this the wolf of which you speak?

http://www.alliancepowersports.com/models/wolf_gallery.html

[SmithSwede]

I'll second Jim's comments.   Find a used Kawasaki Ninja 250.  They can be found cheap in good condition.   Parts are everyone and cheap.

This two-fiddy is my second favorite "real" motorcycle of all the ones I've owned.  It's always just fun to ride.   I bought it to be a cheap, unloved commuter throwaway bike, but the dang thing stole my heart. 

From a practical perspective, it has a very comfortable seating position (like a standard bike).  Big gas tank and good gas mileage means real range.   Superb handling and brakes. 

The engine is a hoot.  Yes, it has enough power on the interstate--I routinely ride mine on the Texas interstates at an indicated 80 to 85.  Top speed is probably a true 90 to 95.   

To enjoy the engine, you gotta rev it.  But pretty soon you will think it's perfectly normal to spend hours on the freeway with the engine spinning 10,000 rpm.  Like I said--it's just fun.

About the only things it won't do it banzai passes of slow moving car on winding two lane roads up hill; and two up riding.  You can tour on them.  I took several trips from Dallas to New Orleans and once to Florida, and did so by choice, leaving bigger and "better" bike at home.

I'd say a used Ninja 250 is about the best value in the motorcycle world.   The ratio of money spent to capability gained is superb.

[Triple Jim]

Top speed is probably a true 90 to 95.

Duck and tuck!  Cycle World got 101 in their road test.   

Maybe I'll put on my GPS wristwatch next time I'm running mine somewhere safe and secluded.

[HardAspie]

Ya know, I did look at Ninjas. But the plastic, liquid cooling, DOHC and shim adjusted 4V per cylinder heads do not sound good for my needs. Pretty little thangs! And quick.

[HardAspie]

what is a wolf?

My friend Jack rode a 50cc moped to Sturgiss and back.. 1200+ miles
not good for freeways but my city bike is plenty fun,

That MadAss looks cool!

[Triple Jim]

I understand your concerns.  I didn't want one until I saw one on the net that had been "standardized", and I had decided to do that to mine before I bought it.  Here's mine after trimming the plastic.  I'm currently working on fixing some tank dents and getting it ready to paint.  But if you don't want DOHC and liquid cooling, I certainly respect that.

Now:



Approximately what I'm going to end up with (photo from the net that I altered):

[charlie b]

FWIW, a Honda Helix finished the Iron Butt rally several years ago.  But, the guy who did it said he would not do it again on a little scooter.  :)

One of my brother's work mates rode a 250cc scooter to work every day for several years (I think it was a Honda).  Southern Ca, I5, full throttle, 30min twice a day.  The dealer asked for the thing back after he put 100k miles on it so they could see what was worn out (they gave him a really good deal on a new one).

I did not want to invest in a new bike when I got my T5.  Look for a used bike that is in good condition.

[ohiorider]

What an interesting thread about quarter liter bikes.  Made me think back to a Kawasaki that was never brought to the States, but is (was) a beautiful small bike. What was it?  The Kawasaki Estrella.  Made only for Europe and Asia, my guess.  And it appears it may be available once again in Japan.

https://www.google.com/search?q=kawasaki+estrella&biw=1280&bih=855&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwjW9NzNtPjKAhWEdj4KHb98CnAQsAQIGw

[HardAspie]

I understand your concerns.  I didn't want one until I saw one on the net that had been "standardized", and I had decided to do that to mine before I bought it.  Here's mine after trimming the plastic.  I'm currently working on fixing some tank dents and getting it ready to paint.  But if you don't want DOHC and liquid cooling, I certainly respect that.

Now:



Approximately what I'm going to end up with (photo from the net that I altered):

I like it! I got a bad taste for tupperware with the Reflex. At one point I enlisted my brother in law to assist after I perused torque settings of the variator centre nuts. We changed the belt, spark plugs, coolant hoses, final drive lube. All bleeding day. The bodywork alone was four panels and about sixty fasteners of five types. The routings of everything under the plastic were obviously where stuff was easily hung on in production and with no concern for maintenance.
Further, the thing had a lot of sail area, much of it forward. Twas an arrow flying backward and treacherous in wind. I like bikes I can see through to the sky! Apparently you do as well. I don't know if it is still in the works but I read a while back that the Big K was considering a naked Ninja 300.

[HardAspie]

FWIW, a Honda Helix finished the Iron Butt rally several years ago.  But, the guy who did it said he would not do it again on a little scooter.  :)

One of my brother's work mates rode a 250cc scooter to work every day for several years (I think it was a Honda).  Southern Ca, I5, full throttle, 30min twice a day.  The dealer asked for the thing back after he put 100k miles on it so they could see what was worn out (they gave him a really good deal on a new one).

I did not want to invest in a new bike when I got my T5.  Look for a used bike that is in good condition.

Way back in time, which is funny because at the time it did not feel like way back at all, I had a few dollars because mom and I pooled our incomes. I had a CB 750F back then and touring rider friends. While I never had both time and money at the same spot to ride the Three Flags many of my friends did. About 1981 someone entered with a Vespa P 200E. People thought he was crazy and he probably was, but he finished and was not the last rider to make it. Cool.

[HardAspie]

What an interesting thread about quarter liter bikes.  Made me think back to a Kawasaki that was never brought to the States, but is (was) a beautiful small bike. What was it?  The Kawasaki Estrella.  Made only for Europe and Asia, my guess.  And it appears it may be available once again in Japan.

https://www.google.com/search?q=kawasaki+estrella&biw=1280&bih=855&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwjW9NzNtPjKAhWEdj4KHb98CnAQsAQIGw

Oh my, ain't it purty.

[Triple Jim]

I don't know if it is still in the works but I read a while back that the Big K was considering a naked Ninja 300.

I hope so.  It makes sense, now that KTM has the 390 out and has shown it can sell.  A friend of mine bought a 390 and loves it.  I'd enjoy seeing a variety of bikes in 250cc-400cc range available in the US.  I imagine the trend is at least partially a result of designing motorcycles for markets like India and China, but if that's what it took, fine.

It's only in the last few years I've learned that I don't need scary power to have fun on a motorcycle, and some of the most fun I've ever had has been on the little ones.

[HardAspie]

Although I must admit to a certain sense of nostalgia, I am thinking the same thing. Besides, little is what I can buy. So long as I can afford to ride it, and it doees not develop a habit of leaving me alone in the midst of BFE I think I will have a lot of fun.

[Chuck in Indiana]

doees not develop a habit of leaving me alone in the midst of BFE I think I will have a lot of fun.

(back to Firefox because Chrome has quit mostly working again.) ??
Well.. uh.. yes.  It'll be a lot more fun if you're not standing on the side of the road in BFE wondering what to do next. 

[jas67]

I don't know if it is still in the works but I read a while back that the Big K was considering a naked Ninja 300.

Honda has a naked 300, the CB300F, MSRP $3,999:


The engine is a 286 CC water cooled single putting out 30 HP.

KTM has the Duke 390 -- love the orange trellis frame (though, the Honda would be MUCH cheaper to own and operate):

[SmithSwede]

HardAspie--

Hey, I'm with you on the downsides.  I too prefer less plastic, and the see-through look.  Also prefer air-cooling and screw adjusters for valves.   These are reasons why my favorite bike is V7 Guzzi Stone and the Kawasaki two-fiddy comes in second. 

But since you are Aspie, lets banter about the facts.   

I'm not a Tupperware fan.  But on 2-fiddy, it really only adds 15 minutes to any job. 

Valves?  Yes, something of a PITA to get to them.  On the other hand, they have not needed adjustment in 25,000 miles.  I'm now taking the calculated risk of skipping the scheduled maintenace interval, will run it until idle or starting gets iffy.  I think a lot of 250 riders do the same--once you get past the break-in period and know the valve train is stable, maybe you can skip the PITA valve checks. 

Water cooling.   Ok, you got me there.   Once I had a dirt dauber build a nest on one blade of the radiator cooling fan.    Gummed it up, and unbalanced it.   Fan motor burnt out, and engine temp light came on repeatedly in city traffic until I figured out the issue.   Used fan was like $25 bucks on EBay, but still.

Second issue was a failed O-ring in upper cylinder head coolant pipe.  Caused a micro-leak of coolant.   Fortunately, my wife kept smelling burnt coolant and I tracked down the problem.  But if she hasn't have noticed, I likely would have depleted the coolant tank and seized the engine.   

Replacement O-ring was 25 cents, and an hour to get there and back.   

So yes, they aren't perfect.   But very, very, very good for the money.   

And heck, even if you have some catastrophic engine failure, get a $500 engine off EBay and swap them out.   

[HardAspie]

If upon seeing a Wolf and truing it out I say "NO!" then the N300 is possible, as are a few others. The CSC offerings look okay too.