New To Disc Brakes On My Cali In The Rain. Help!

[Tom H]

So... I'm on the way home on the freeway doing the 405 crawl at about 30-40mph. Been this way for about 15 minutes. Traffic decides to stop, hit my brakes and basically nothing. I had been leaving plenty of room so I got slowed down. Had this happen a few times. Kinda scared me.

Is it the disc brakes that don't work well in the rain, or was it me, my brake pads?. Is there something I can do to help this? My 4 wheel disc truck stops fine, but the Cali does not.

I was wishing that I was on my Eldo, it will stop in the rain!

Thanks,
Tom

[normzone]

Wow. My Eldo had to have the brakes pumped constantly in order to stop in the rain.

[fotoguzzi]

you have a problem.. I don't have advice other than to say fix it before you ride it.

[cruzziguzzi]

Time to check back there for glazing?

Todd.

[Tom H]

Eldo stops fine in anything except a frog drowner.

Fairly new to disc brake bikes. This is the first time in the rain on this bike. I changed all the pads as the old were fairly worn. I have put about 400+ miles on the new pads. These pads stop just fine in the dry, but in the cool and wet, not so good. These are aftermarket pads, do stock Brembo's or EBC do better?

While I was thinking about this on the way home, I seem to remember that an old 70's Honda 500 had the same type of problem. No front brake in the rain. The Cali has drilled discs, so I didn't think rain should be a problem.

So disc brake bikes shouldn't have this problem in the rain??

Thanks for the help so far!!
Tom

[HardAspie]

Those old bikes like the seventy's Honda had stainless steel rotors that looked great and did not corrode, but could be nasty when wet. Still, I owned a few such and had no real rain issues; a little higher pressure needed, but the bike would stop just fine. I suspect something strange is happening with your brakes.

[Wayne Orwig]

Fairly new to disc brake bikes. This is the first time in the rain on this bike. I changed all the pads as the old were fairly worn. I have put about 400+ miles on the new pads. These pads stop just fine in the dry, but in the cool and wet, not so good. These are aftermarket pads, do stock Brembo's or EBC do better?

The rotors are Stainless Steel. I am guessing that you did NOT use sintered pads. Most non-sintered pads don't work well in the rain with SS rotors.
I use sintered EBC HH pads on my 2004 EV and they brake in the rain just fine. Maybe TOO good, but that's another story.

EBC FA209/2HH on the rear.
EBC FA244HH on the front.

[Tom H]

The pads claim to be a ceramic type. I was looking for a set that had low disc wear and low dusting. Again in the dry, they seem fine. I was thinking in the wet that there was not enough heat in the disc to work right.

I was looking at EBC, the HH sounded like great stopping, but high on disc wear. Seemed like a canyon riders pad. I need to look it up again, but there was a pad one step below HH. Maybe need to look at that or HH.

Not like it rains everyday in So. Ca., but I do ride every day. The only time I don't is when it's raining when I'm ready to head TO work. Hate to be wet all day or have to change clothes at work. Soo, I need brakes and tires that work in dry and wet on the freeway.

Thanks for the thoughts so far!!
Tom

[Triple Jim]

My H2 takes a couple turns of the front rotors to brake hard in the rain.  I just have to be ready to let up the lever some when it happens.  As stated, organic pads on stainless disks.  It never bothered me much since it has a nice drum brake on the rear wheel.  I've always been partial to rear drums for that reason, although for some reason they're not popular.

[Wayne Orwig]

I was looking at EBC, the HH sounded like great stopping, but high on disc wear. Seemed like a canyon riders pad. I need to look it up again, but there was a pad one step below HH. Maybe need to look at that or HH.

I ride a lot two up. I even tow a camper often. Never had an issue stopping in rain. My 2004 EV has 120,000 miles on it. I have always used EBC HH pads, rain or shine, year round. What is this disk wear you speak of?
 

[BigDave in PA]

I ride a lot two up. I even tow a camper often. Never had an issue stopping in rain. My 2004 EV has 120,000 miles on it. I have always used EBC HH pads, rain or shine, year round. What is this disk wear you speak of?

+1 '01 ev just shy of 100k miles. EBC HH. No problem with rotor wear.

[Tom H]

So what has been said is that organic pads and stainless rotors don't work well in the wet?

From what I had read. The HH sintered pads put more wear on the rotors than an organic type pad. Just trying to keep wear and tear down. But with the replies so far, I guess it's time to dump the pads I have and go HH. Rotor wear should not be a problem. I'm mostly a freeway rider, not a canyon twisties racer. I wear out the center of a tire well before wearing off the nubs near the edges.

I have been through the old Guzzi drum brake issues, adjustment, lining material and the like. Got that pretty much sorted out over the years. Eldo stops great, Ambo needs a new front drum to stop as well as I think it should (that's a whole new subject post on why I think the drum is shot). 2 wheel disc brakes on a bike are new to me.

Again, thanks for the help so far!!
Tom

[acogoff]

     You may try sucking the fluid out of the reservoir and back flush your fluid from the caliper also and replace fluid. I have seen old moisture laiden fluid form what I would term a bugger in the bottom of the reservoir and line. Just enough to cause a bit of restriction. Easy enough.

[Perazzimx14]

HH pads kill cast iron rotors/disc's in short order. Matched to SS rotors/disc's they are a great combo.

Even if you have a bit of accelerated going to HH pads it will be better that the "fork/frame" bend that can occur when you can't stop and slam into an object in front of you.   

[Chuck in Indiana]

From what I had read. The HH sintered pads put more wear on the rotors than an organic type pad. Just trying to keep wear and tear down.

You'll keep wear and tear down once you crash it on the 405 from not having any brakes. (!!)    No it isn't normal. As mentioned above, put some HH pads on it. Yes, they'll wear the rotors a *little* faster, but I've been using them since the first time I tried them. They flat out work on stainless rotors. Might as well put fresh fluid in it while you're at it..

[mtiberio]

ABS... don't sweat it...

[John A]

Clean the rotors with garnett sandpaper when you change pads, takes off any deposits that make it feel like you have a bent rotor.

[chuck peterson]

I've always had a moments hesitation while applying disc brakes in the rain, while the pads wipe off the water

[Wayne Orwig]

Clean the rotors with garnett sandpaper when you change pads, takes off any deposits that make it feel like you have a bent rotor.

:1:
A lot of complaints about 'warped rotors' are really deposits on the rotors that can be cleaned off.

[BigDave in PA]

As far as the rotor wear, I think it has a lot to do with your riding habits. I cut my teeth riding a V700 and a '73 Eldorado both with drum brakes. It taught me to use the engine braking and I formed my riding habits around the performance of the drum style brakes. I also have a '76 Convert with iron rotors and I use the o.e.m. Ferodo pads on that.

[Triple Jim]

I remember a friend who worked for Metro Messenger Service in DC in the late '70s and early '80s talking about the written test that job applicants were given.  They had to pass before they were hired and allowed to ride the old BMWs that the company had a fleet of.  One of the questions was about using the brakes vs. using engine braking.  The applicant would fail if he said he'd use engine braking, and that's because brakes on the BMWs were easy to maintain, while clutch replacement was a big job.  With that being stuck in my head for 35 years, I avoid downshifting and using engine braking when riding my Guzzi.  Of course with careful throttle blipping and shifting, you can engine brake without adding much to clutch wear, but just using the brakes is so much simpler, and they're so much easier to maintain than the clutch.

[George_S]

I've always had a moments hesitation while applying disc brakes in the rain, while the pads wipe off the water

Yes, if you're looking for instant grab, it's not happening in the rain. That first half-second after you grab the brakes can be worrisome. Increase your following distance in order to decrease your pucker factor.

[rocker59]

I ride pretty hard and have yet to wear out any brake rotors with EBC HH pads.  Even with the stock thin Guzzi/Brembo rotors.

I'm sure it can be done, but my guess is it would take 100,000 + miles on a bike to do it.

[Tom H]

Thanks for all the great answers. It looks like the HH pads are on my shopping list!!

I do understand the safety things to do in the rain. Been riding my old drum brakes for 35 years. Yes they let me down a few times in the rain, had to drag the brake to keep them dried and maybe a little warm. I'm just new to disc brakes and was not expecting the rain to give me any problem. I understand that it may take a turn or two to wipe the water off, then it should stop fine. What I had last night was basicaly NO brakes for about 4-5 car lengths, then I finally felt like I could maybe get it to stop. Once off the freeway and in lighter rain, the brakes were working more like I thought they should, but still took the second or two to get good.

I will be changing the pads to HH as recommended!! Didn't know organic and stainless didn't work

Thanks again for all the help!!!!!
Tom

[Triple Jim]

I ride pretty hard and have yet to wear out any brake rotors with EBC HH pads.  Even with the stock thin Guzzi/Brembo rotors.

Does that mean cast iron rotors like the stock ones on my Mille?

[Chuck in Indiana]

Does that mean cast iron rotors like the stock ones on my Mille?

Absolutely. Those are like <channeling Roper> rocking horse shit. You don't want to eat up those rotors.

[Skarsaune]

Need to replace pads on my new-to-me '98 EV - where are y'all getting your EBC HH pads from?

[Tom H]

I planned to try my local dealer first and see how much he wanted and then compare to prices on fleabay. If close, my local guy gets the business. Fleabay can be very hard to beat at times. In either case, it will take a few days to get them. I plan to put the stock Brembos back in tonight.

Thanks again for all the help!!!
Tom

[rocker59]

Does that mean cast iron rotors like the stock ones on my Mille?

Absolutely. Those are like <channeling Roper> rocking horse shit. You don't want to eat up those rotors.

Yeah.  On those older 1997-back Tontis, you'll not want to run HH pads, because replacing the rotors, if needed, won't be as easy as replacing the later style as seen on the spine frames and 98-up Tontis.

The later styles are pretty standard and cross to Aprilia and Ducati, so replacements can be had on about every street corner.

 

[Triple Jim]

Yeah.  On those older 1997-back Tontis, you'll not want to run HH pads, because replacing the rotors, if needed, won't be as easy as replacing the later style as seen on the spine frames and 98-up Tontis.

The later styles are pretty standard and cross to Aprilia and Ducati, so replacements can be had on about every street corner.

OK thanks to you and Chuck.  I won't change my M.O. then.