Norge gas fumes fix?

[nikwax]

First off, hello again everyone. I've been off for a while rehabbing a back injury. Seems to be on the mend, at long last. I highly recommend Pilates with a skilled practitioner.


I've been riding the Norge year round, yesterday we had our first warm day in quite a while, and I was reminded, after parking in the garage, of the gas fumes that this bike exudes when hot. Three story house smelling like a gas station, at least we could open the windows and air the joint out.


I vaguely recall that the fix is to tighten the bolts holding down the fuel pump, is that correct? I'm due for my 30k service and would like to get it sorted, or the bike is going to have to live outside during the warm weather.


Thanks, and hope you all are well.


Mark

[BigBlock]

Welcome back and I'm glad your better.     I had that same problem, ended up there was a very small amount of fuel leaking from the fuel pump gasket under the tank.  Snugged up the 6 (I think 7mm bolts) and everything was fine after that.  Or it could be vapours from the evap canister that's situated under the seat.

[nikwax]

Thanks BB. Canister is long gone, I'll ask the service people to check the fuel pump bolts and make sure the canister hoses are correct.

[sib]

Am I understanding this correctly?  You removed the canister that is supposed to trap fuel vapors and prevent them from venting to the atmosphere, and then you notice fuel vapors venting into the atmosphere?  Something must be seriously wrong here.  I could suggest a fix, but nah, I'm sure you can figure it out.

[Wayne Orwig]

Thanks BB. Canister is long gone, I'll ask the service people to check the fuel pump bolts and make sure the canister hoses are correct.

You removed the device that traps gas fumes, and now smell gas fumes.

Do tell.

[nikwax]

wow, I almost missed the snark and smart asses around here. Almost.


Did I say that I removed the canister?

[sib]

wow, I almost missed the snark and smart asses around here. Almost.


Did I say that I removed the canister?

Apologies if I misunderstood the phrase "Canister is long gone."

[rdbandkab]

To the crowd:  Do the Euro Guzzi have the evap canister?   For some reason I'm thinking only the U.S. versions have the canister.

[ohiorider]

wow, I almost missed the snark and smart asses around here. Almost.


Did I say that I removed the canister?

Hey, Nik ..... you haven't missed much! 

Glad to see you're back.

Bob

[ohiorider]

To the crowd:  Do the Euro Guzzi have the evap canister?   For some reason I'm thinking only the U.S. versions have the canister.

You are correct, fellow West Virginian!  The rest of the world vents to atmosphere.  The US vents thru a charcoal canister, then pulls the vapors back through the intake manifolds and burns them in the combustion process.  Here's the Euro (rest of the world) version.  My 1200 Sport has been 'Euro'd' since new, and I don't notice gasoline vapors in the garage.

With the Euro version ..... the hose (#14 - far right) doesn't go into a canister.  The two hoses that connect to the tee connector are (a) drain for rainwater that might slip thru the gas filler cap, and (b) the hose that depressurizes the fuel tank when pressure builds (like when the bike is parked with a full tank in the sunlight in the middle of August.)

[JeffOlson]

To the crowd:  Do the Euro Guzzi have the evap canister?   For some reason I'm thinking only the U.S. versions have the canister.

No, they don't. It's a California requirement that Moto Guzzi decided to give to the other 49 states as well to simplify things for them.

I am doing a canister-ectomyw soon--because I can, and because I want to, and because I need that under-seat storage space for something useful like a tire repair kit.

Also, I don't think Nikwax is smelling fumes. I think he is smelling leaking gasoline, which has nothing to do with the California evap system.

[rdbandkab]

Also, I don't think Nikwax is smelling fumes. I think he is smelling leaking gasoline, which has nothing to do with the California evap system.

Spot on.    I just tossed the Euro version comparison to suggest that the lads (not in the U.S.) didn't have houses full of fuel vapor.

[ohiorider]

BMW does ( or did in the past) build nothing but 50 state bikes.  Apparently it was simpler to install the more complicated California emissions systems for all of the USA rather than build a model for California and another model for the rest of the USA.  Smaller manufacturers like Guzzi and BMW probably find the extra cost of adding the CA charcoal canister to all their bikes destined for the USA less expensive than building and distributing one version of their bikes to 49 states, and another versions to California-only.

[toolittletime]

I did the canister-ectomyw to my 12 early on.  A few weeks later I did smell gas, but it was a small leak/seep coming from around the pump gasket. I removed the tank, and took the fuel gauge mechanism out to examine it for problems....cleaned it off an checked the ohms...reinstalled the indicator/fuel pump......tightened down the screws around the pump gasket and have had no other problems with the gauge or the leak.
I case you're curious......it looks like this:


Tim

[Chuck in Indiana]

There's a reason for that really thick gasket..

[guzzisteve]

Just so you know, don't over tighten the pump plate bolts. Max is 5 ftlbs.  I use this red stuff that is used on Aprilia pump plate orings.
i also use the red stuff on early Stelvio gas tank necks so fumes don't get on the center tank cover that is painted.

[nikwax]

thanks for the discussion!


Had the bike in for the 30k service, they checked the gas tank/pump mount and no sign of leaking there. They did find that the overflow tube from the tank was blocked, and was blocked down past the tee. I haven't had a warm enough ride yet to see if that fixed the problem or not. Last night it seemed less stinky but still aromatic, but it wasn't very warm.


If there is a leak, could it be a fuel injector or something else downstream of the tank? I'm trying to remember how BMW's FI worked, it seemed like there is a low pressure return circuit for pressurized fuel, wonder if that could get cattywompus?

[nikwax]

I did ask the mechanic why they removed the charcoal canister. They said that they had been causing problems on other bikes, so they just remove them.


I removed the one that was on my BMW, they were notorious for getting clogged with loose charcoal bits and causing starting and running issues. My BMW tubing had quite a bit of charcoal in it, and likely the system wasn't doing what it was designed to do, if in fact it ever had. It's a good idea, just poorly (perhaps cynically) executed.