Norge Maps

[canuguzzi]

Results will show when poll expire in one week.

[Cool Runnings]

Norge under warranty, will keep stock map through 2017.

[atavar]

Factory reps did mine at National way back when. I have been through about a half dozen maps trying to resolve the jerky idle performance before giving in and realizing that CARC by design is just sloppy with lots of lash and that's all there is to it.  I have adapted my riding style to compensate.
They even helped me bleed the spongy rear brake. 

[Jerryd]

2V or 4V motors? Mine has absolutely no idle jerky symptoms, but then again I might blow up my engine with the O2 Optimizer   

[atavar]

the motor has nothing to do with the jerkiness.  IT's all in the drive train.  If you can put the turned off bike in gear and roll it back and forth entire inches there is going to be snatchiness at parking lot speeds and there is nothing to be done about it.  I have just learned to ride the brake to keep the drive train loaded so it doesn't transition back and forth between leading and trailing throttle. 
I have had six certified shops and two factory reps look at it and they all say "Yep, that's the way they are.  Learn to live with it."

[Xlratr]

the motor has nothing to do with the jerkiness.  IT's all in the drive train.  If you can put the turned off bike in gear and roll it back and forth entire inches there is going to be snatchiness at parking lot speeds and there is nothing to be done about it.  I have just learned to ride the brake to keep the drive train loaded so it doesn't transition back and forth between leading and trailing throttle. 
I have had six certified shops and two factory reps look at it and they all say "Yep, that's the way they are.  Learn to live with it."

That jerkiness used to drive me crazy. But balanced TBs and a remap can make a big difference. Mine used to be terrible in slow traffic and roundabouts and I was frequently using the clutch to avoid snatch. But now I can roll the throttle on and off in those situations, no problem.

[canuguzzi]

That jerkiness used to drive me crazy. But balanced TBs and a remap can make a big difference. Mine used to be terrible in slow traffic and roundabouts and I was frequently using the clutch to avoid snatch. But now I can roll the throttle on and off in those situations, no problem.

Curious, how did you remove the drive line snatch? I ask because the TBs, throttle cable adjustment have nothing to do with the slack (for lack of better term) built in.

As someone said, bike in gear but engine off, you can move the bike back and fort somewhat. That will always be there. You can compensate for it through use of clutch and power but can't remove it through tuning.

Agreed that a good tune can manage the other factors that exacerbate and good throttle control (smooth on-off) can manage it  but remove the amount built into the drive line?

How did you do it?

[Xlratr]

Curious, how did you remove the drive line snatch? I ask because the TBs, throttle cable adjustment have nothing to do with the slack (for lack of better term) built in.

As someone said, bike in gear but engine off, you can move the bike back and fort somewhat. That will always be there. You can compensate for it through use of clutch and power but can't remove it through tuning.

Agreed that a good tune can manage the other factors that exacerbate and good throttle control (smooth on-off) can manage it  but remove the amount built into the drive line?

How did you do it?

Well obviously the TB sync and map can't reduce drivetrain lash 
But I also used to think the drive train was the primary problem. It just isn't so apparent anymore and slow speed riding is no longer a hassle. A heavier flywheel would be nice though, in my opinion.

[atavar]

The biggest improvement comes from rider training.  Just learning how to manage power without transitioning back and forth between leading and trailing throttle (accel decel).  Watching and planning to adjust speed to prevent those transitions is key.

[twowings]

Excuse my ignorance...does the GuzziDiag program interact with the TPS settings and can the TPS configuration be modified to 'soften' input response? Or am I asking the right question?

[beetle]

Excuse my ignorance...does the GuzziDiag program interact with the TPS settings and can the TPS configuration be modified to 'soften' input response? Or am I asking the right question?

I think I understand what you mean. If the map has a throttle correction table, it can be modified to reduce the on/off throttle effect.

[beetle]

+1 what John said. Proper throttle cable adjustment and TB balance goes a long way to minimising apparent drivetrain snatch.

[Xlratr]

Excuse my ignorance...does the GuzziDiag program interact with the TPS settings and can the TPS configuration be modified to 'soften' input response? Or am I asking the right question?

I guess you're thinking about some kind of ride by wire configuration. But no, that's not really possible.
I'm not saying the map and TB sync will make it ride like a Harley or even my old T3 at low speed. It's not built for that. But it goes a long way to making it more pleasurable in traffic.

[twowings]

On my old CJ-7 with Mopar MPFI, the throttle linkage was still mechanical, but the supplied spring for the linkage was nice and quickly responsive on the street but useless when trying to modulate the throttle while rock-crawling...so I carried a autoparts store HELP section throttle return spring for a Ford pickup or some such that was much heavier and thus allowed more throttle control by slowing down the pedal-to-linkage input ratio and switched them out at the trailhead...

[beetle]

Ah. You want a throttle tamer.  Google G2 throttle tamer.

[atavar]

I remember that back my the helicopter in design spaces where zero lash was required we would use a pair of gears clocked slightly off so one half would match the leading edge of the cog and the other would match the trailing edge to simulate 100% mesh.  Nifty way to eliminate lash but it did require maintenance and adjustment and did tend to promote gear wear.  I am sure in a motorcycle drive application you'd be changing gears every couple thousand miles. 

[canuguzzi]

Beetle, the stock map seemed to be somewhat softer, if that is a way of saying it. When you rolled on the throttle the effect felt like the response was muted.

That might not describe it best but the modded maps would be sharp as opposed to soft for the stock mapNot scientific terms for sure but it felt that way.

[beetle]

The 8V has excellent throttle response. I think some folks prefer carbs over injection as you don't get that 'instant' torque. A modified map that provides ideal AFR for torque can can seem to add a bit of brutality to the throttle response. Modifying the throttle correction can help. It does also require a well controlled throttle hand.   

[jim mac]

I nearly gotnrid of my 8v within a week it was so bad, definately dangerous on sharp turns or roundabouts. I fitted a Finebau Forge unit, problem solved, bike became a big smile on my face

[canuguzzi]

That G2 Throttle Tamer seems interesting and might solve a problem for some. Adjusting the throttle cables does nothing to modify the amount of twist needed for any given throttle application. Reducing the twist ratio would give you more control over a greater throttle range and might even make riding at steady speeds easier as well since it would take more twist to change speed.

The ability to adjust the twist ratio seems like a very good idea.

[Kiwi Dave]

Curious, how did you remove the drive line snatch? I ask because the TBs, throttle cable adjustment have nothing to do with the slack (for lack of better term) built in.

As someone said, bike in gear but engine off, you can move the bike back and fort somewhat. That will always be there. You can compensate for it through use of clutch and power but can't remove it through tuning.

Agreed that a good tune can manage the other factors that exacerbate and good throttle control (smooth on-off) can manage it  but remove the amount built into the drive line?

How did you do it?

I have just cured this annoyance on my 1200 Sport by replacing both bearings on the reaction rod (that connects the CARC to the pivot point of the swinging arm).  My gear changes were clunky, and it felt like there were huge gaps between the cogs in the gearbox.

Check for any movement in the bearings by grabbing the reaction rod and try to twist it or feel for play at either end.  In my case, the bearing that lives in the eyelet of the CARC was shagged, but I replaced both for good measure.

Parts #  (from Harpers) are:-

Silentblock #883045 for front end
Ball Joint #05638130 for CARC end

[Chuck in Indiana]

Adjusting the throttle cables does nothing to modify the amount of twist needed for any given throttle application.

Not true at all. Once all the "slop" is taken out of the system, it will reduce the amount of twist *and* give better throttle control feel.
There's a reason they named it CARC, btw. Clanks and Rattles Constantly. 

[canuguzzi]

Not true at all. Once all the "slop" is taken out of the system, it will reduce the amount of twist *and* give better throttle control feel.
There's a reason they named it CARC, btw. Clanks and Rattles Constantly. 

For slack you are correct.

Beetle nailed it with the G2 throttle tamer. It lets you adjust for more selective control of the throttle position. The throttle still works the same, it is just that now you have more twist available and thus finer control.

All things being equal (slack removed) more twist of actual throttle control (not slack) can result in a finer degree of throttle control. It would reduce the on/off effect since the twist imparts a lesser amount of actual throttle movement. Think tall vs short gearing.

[canuguzzi]

I have just cured this annoyance on my 1200 Sport by replacing both bearings on the reaction rod (that connects the CARC to the pivot point of the swinging arm).  My gear changes were clunky, and it felt like there were huge gaps between the cogs in the gearbox.

Check for any movement in the bearings by grabbing the reaction rod and try to twist it or feel for play at either end.  In my case, the bearing that lives in the eyelet of the CARC was shagged, but I replaced both for good measure.

Parts #  (from Harpers) are:-

Silentblock #883045 for front end
Ball Joint #05638130 for CARC end

At what mileage would this start to become a problem? Under 20k miles or is it just something that can happen and not related to mileage given good maintenance?

[pete roper]

There was a revision to the silentbloc bushings of the reaction rod at some point, the clanking issue is generally more apparent with the 8V bikes as these don't have the face cam shock absorber in the gearbox but in all honesty I've never been overly concerned about it.

Why eliminating as much free play as possible from the cables has such a profound effect on on/off throttle transition is hard to explain but it does.

Pete

[Huzo]

I asked the question on a thread "A bit of rubber in the rear" I was told by the guys at Corsa Italiana in London that the front bush on my '07 Norge was not rubber but I haven't checked. The bike's currently over there and will be done soon

[BRIO]

How do BMW's fare in this department

[Kiwi Dave]

I asked the question on a thread "A bit of rubber in the rear" I was told by the guys at Corsa Italiana in London that the front bush on my '07 Norge was not rubber but I haven't checked. The bike's currently over there and will be done soon

Both of my bearings on the 1200 were self-aligning type, why they needed to be so I have no idea.  The kit from Harpers was a self-aligning bearing for the CARC end, and a silent block for the udder.

At what mileage would this start to become a problem? Under 20k miles or is it just something that can happen and not related to mileage given good maintenance?

My Sport has gone just over 32,000 miles.  Dunno what maintenance you can do to help prevent it.  Gentler riding?

[MGrego]

I have an updated map for my 2012 Norge, but I haven't installed it yet.  After rollerizing, tightening up the valve clearances, and balancing the TB's, I didn't want to introduce another variable into the mix right away.  It seems to be running fine with the stock map presently.  I thought I might try the new map at the next service interval, in about 3000 miles.  I will be interested to know others experience with the updated mapping --

[sbaker]

Hello;

My 2012 Has had all the roller updates, valve clearances etc.. AND did the new MAP... Runs hard like a scalded dog!!!! 20% increase in Gas Mileage, smoother less vibration ....