MV Agusta Applies for Bankruptcy

[aschem]

Read this today:
http://www.cycleworld.com/2016/03/23/mv-agusta-applies-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy-motorcycle-news/

[lucydad]

Hope MVA survives....very cool bikes, love their 3 cylinder models:  like Triumph triples, except with more style and verve...

[oldbike54]

Hope MVA survives....very cool bikes, love their 3 cylinder models:  like Triumph triples, except with more style and verve...

 Greg , I think the Triumph outperforms the F3 by most every metric .

 Dusty

[lucky phil]

Greg , I think the Triumph outperforms the F3 by most every metric .

 Dusty

Don't see any Triumphs winning WSS races or even competing for that matter.
Although the Triumph is a nice looking bike its not in the same league as the little MV i'm afraid.
Ciao 

[oldbike54]

Don't see any Triumphs winning WSS races or even competing for that matter.
Although the Triumph is a nice looking bike its not in the same league as the little MV i'm afraid.
Ciao

 Street bikes and race bikes are two completely different breeds of cat . Every comparison I've read shows that the Triumph is the better bike .

 Dusty

[rocker59]

Greg , I think the Triumph outperforms the F3 by most every metric .

 Dusty

Except the one that counts. Panache.

[Stormtruck2]

Except the one that counts. Panache.

HE SHOOTS, HE SCORES!  IT'S A KILL SHOT! 


Almost bought an F4RR , beautiful bike.  Much sexier than the Street or Speed Triple.

[lucky phil]

Street bikes and race bikes are two completely different breeds of cat . Every comparison I've read shows that the Triumph is the better bike .

 Dusty

How quaint, someone that actually thinks bike journos are worth taking notice of. I've only seen a handful over the last 40 years that had any idea at all.  WSS is a very good yardstick for "sports" bikes these days with the latest rule iterations.
If you had ever had a modern Triumph engine stripped down on the bench and looked at the engineering you might not be that impressed. I wouldn't own another one. Three was three too many.
Ciao   

[lucky phil]

HE SHOOTS, HE SCORES!  IT'S A KILL SHOT! 


Almost bought an F4RR , beautiful bike.  Much sexier than the Street or Speed Triple.

Ciao

[Shorty]

Maybe Harley will buy them again, and sell it back for one dollar. 


http://www.jsonline.com/business/100130534.html  (old news)

[O]

Doesn't Mercedes Benz own a piece of them?  I guess not a big enough piece (yet) though.

[lucydad]

British chuckle then Italian chortle.....

I test rode a MVA 675 triple about 2 years ago.  Bike impressed me with looks, sound (triple exhaust is incredible).  Throttle fueling was snatchy and difficult in traffic.  Never got to take it out on road as dealer was pretty conservative.  He wanted my V7R for his dad and tried to make a trade, and tried to get me to test the larger Brutale. Did not like instrumentation on any of their bikes:  small, difficult to read LCD type, very small mph digital number.   Never happened as the more I read about issues and fueling and broken sprag-sprocket problems:  I passed.

Enter the Street Triple RX 675.  Had the bike a year.  Just love it.  It is so damned refined and yeah the engine can scream, handling amazing and I think it is pretty if you like Klingon genetics.  Love the big instrument display, upright seating, reliability and the whole package just fits me.  The bike can be civilized on stop and go, and give a good pucker if pushed past 9000 rpm.  Brakes are incredible. Shifting is precise.  Cornering a joy.

MVA is simply gorgeous though.  Yes Italian design.  So, I hope MVA hangs on. 

[Stormtruck2]

I really want an MVA F4rr.  I'm 55 years old and well on my way to being fully crippled.  Told Lorraine about wanting to buy one and she looked at it and the specs.  She then turned to me and said "you buying that is like you sleeping with a 21 year old nympho. You think you can ride that but you'll just end up hurting yourself on it."  Sometime honesty sucks.   

[LowRyter]

so wait.

CH 11 is Bankruptcy law in USA?  Italy?  What? 

And I am guessing it's not liquidation but just a way to "reorganize"?  I just wonder what happened to the $100M that Harley gave them? 

[molly]

Greg , I think the Triumph outperforms the F3 by most every metric .

 Dusty

It certainly does where it matters. Dealer backup and support.

[oldbike54]

 So if the Augusta is so superior to the Triumph , which it isn't , how come MV is going tits up .

 Oh Unlucky Phil , Triumph has in fact one some races .

 And what do pancakes have to do with motorcycles ???

 Sorry guys , just because it is Italian , and has the personality of a race horse (read as unpleasant)  and says MV Augusta on it , does not make it a better bike . Besides , we were actually talking about the Street Triple VS the 675 Brutale , and the Brutale looks like a stink bug .

 Oh , Phil , no one is paying YOU for your opinions . Pretty sure Egan , Henning , Canet , et al know way more about motorbikes than you .

 
 Dusty

[Kev m]

So if the Augusta is so superior to the Triumph , which it isn't , how come MV is going tits up .

So by that logic Harley is better than Guzzi, or well, just about anything is better than Guzzi.

[oldbike54]

So by that logic Harley is better than Guzzi, or well, just about anything is better than Guzzi.

 Nope . Given MV's heritage and fame they should have sold like hotcakes , they didn't . I simply don't buy the argument that because something is "exotic" it is better than a reliable product .

 Dusty

[Dogwalker]

so wait.

CH 11 is Bankruptcy law in USA?  Italy?  What? 

And I am guessing it's not liquidation but just a way to "reorganize"?  I just wonder what happened to the $100M that Harley gave them?

What MV requested is a "Concordato in continuit�".
It's an agreement, supervised by the court, with the creditors, to pay them less, but continue the production.
If the agreement is not found, there is bankrupcy.

[canuguzzi]

 And what do pancakes have to do with motorcycles ???
 Dusty

Knowing the difference between panache and pancakes helps. 

[John A]

Can you use steel cut oats to make pancakes ?

[Kev m]

What MV requested is a "Concordato in continuit�".
It's an agreement, supervised by the court, with the creditors, to pay them less, but continue the production.
If the agreement is not found, there il bankrupcy.

Yup, basically the equivalent of a CH11 business reorganization in the US.

US law also has a personal reorganization (Ch 13) or liquidation (Ch 7).

[oldbike54]

Knowing the difference between panache and pancakes helps. 

 Not in this instance . People are confusing panache with substance , so it might as well be pancakes , at least pancakes will fill you up 

 Dusty

[Kev m]

Nope . Given MV's heritage and fame they should have sold like hotcakes , they didn't . I simply don't buy the argument that because something is "exotic" it is better than a reliable product .

 Dusty

Meh, I couldn't care less.

I was just pointing out the logic of your statement was that "superiority = retail success" which I think is bunk.

[ken farr]

Can you use steel cut oats to make pancakes ?

....yes, then they will have panache...

kjf

[JeffOlson]

This is sad news. I never like to see people or companies struggle or fail. Fortunately, this is not yet a liquidation bankruptcy but merely a reorganization.

Leverage cuts both ways...

Polonius to his son, Laertes, in Hamlet:
"Neither a borrower nor a lender be,
"For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
"And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry."

[Kentktk]

Companies do this all the time, for instance GM, American Airlines, United Airlines, Delta Airlines. AMG/Mercedes owns 25% of MV, they wanted more but the majority owner Giovani Castiglioni didn`t want to give up control so AMG is leaving and their money to pay debts goes with them.

[canuguzzi]

Not in this instance . People are confusing panache with substance , so it might as well be pancakes , at least pancakes will fill you up 

 Dusty

If you say so.

[not-fishing]

This is the article that actually might have some insight.

http://www.motorcycle.com/features/mv-agusta-in-yet-another-financial-crisis.html

That MV was able to produce a 30% growth in sales last year while claiming a large number of backorders for 2016 means there is some hope of turning things around.

Oddly, that stands in contrast to his late father, Claudio Castiglioni, who on more than one occasion, sold the company for millions only to buy it back for a nominal fee (the most recent buyer was Harley-Davidson which purchased MV Agusta for $108 million in 2008 only to sell it back two years later for a single euro). It’s a neat trick if you could pull it off, but it looks like Giovanni Castiglioni will have to go a different route.

The kid doesn't want to give up control of the company and doesn't want to live within his means.

Is this a European thing??

[cruzziguzzi]

Causes no worry in my mind anymore.

Seems any given respective jurisdiction's "backruptcy" anymore is merely an opportunity for an entity to aggressively "reorganize" on the tax-payers dime.

Was a time it signaled weakness either personally, professionally, corporately or nationally.

Anymore? Not so much.

More these days of an issue of hiding from commitments deemed retroactively unfair by the indebted party.


Todd.