Monza rehab

[Chuck in Indiana]

I'm finally getting strong enough to actually *do* something instead of reading, ignoring the teevee, and looking at walls.
Yesterday, I managed to remove the luggage/bag rack, and the fuel tank. Baby steps, but felt a sense of accomplishment, just the same. 
2016-04-09_11-05-04 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Here's something the seller probably didn't know about.. a roller bearing conversion of the headstock. 
As I've mentioned on a previous thread, it appears from the title that the original owner bought it in 83, and kept it until '15. He knew his stuff. This is the first old Guzzi that I haven't been shaking my head thinking WTF was he thinking? 
2016-04-09_11-05-23 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Most know by now that I'm a tool junkie. This is a spark plug thread chaser, used for cleaning out carbon and crud out of.. well..spark plug threads.  It won't damage them. When I pulled the plugs, they came out a little harder than I like. There was no anti seize on the plugs, either. The chaser cleaned them right up. This one happens to be M18 on one end and M14 on the other..aircraft sizes.
2016-04-09_11-05-50 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Ok, let's find out what kind of shape this engine is in.. rolled it around to TDC ready to fire on the Sinestro cylinder, and.. Uh oh. You remember that I've said If you look for trouble in an old machine, you'll find it? The exhaust valve was at essentially zero lash. (!) Better see if it has a burnt valve. Adjusted the valves, brought out my home made leak down tester, and it checked 80/75. Pretty good for a mid time engine. The only leakage was at the intake valve. Hmmmm. Only two things could be going on. Either the exhaust valve is stretching and getting ready to spit the head off, fairly common on small blocks, or the seller adjusted the valves and screwed up.
Let's see what the other side is like. Rolled it up to TDC, and the exhaust valve was .011" Hmmmm. Maybe (probably wishful thinking) Mr. Seller *did* screw up the valve adjustment. Reset them to .006 and .008, hooked up the leak down tester, and got 80/68. Not good. Leaking intake valve, again.
Many times this is only carbon between the valve and seat, so left the tester hooked up, and tapped the valve a couple of times with my copper hammer.
2016-04-09_11-06-32 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Reading went immediately to 80/72.
2016-04-09_11-06-14 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Tapped a few more times.. not *smiting* it  just enough to open and close the valve. Leaving the pressure on blows crud from between the valve and seat. Reading went to 80/75.. good enough. Still a small leak from the intake valve, just like the other side. Symmetry is a good thing on an old engine.
So.
What to do? The Lario isn't the only small block that is capable of dropping exhaust valves.. need to keep a close eye on it.
I think I'll run it for 500 miles, and check them again. If it was just the previous owner screwing up a valve adjustment, they'll still be where I left them. If the exhaust valve is stretching, the clearance will close up, and it's time for a valve job.

[BMCMOTO]

Chuck,  Glad to see you are back in the shop!!  Be careful not to damage any of the Doctor's good work!

Brian

[Chuck in Indiana]

Thanks! I'm taking it very easy, but just being able to actually *do* something is a big psychological lift. That's important, too.. With any luck at all, I'll be riding this sucker in no time.

[Unkept]

Thanks! I'm taking it very easy, but just being able to actually *do* something is a big psychological lift. That's important, too.. With any luck at all, I'll be riding this sucker in no time.

:)

Love the pictures. Charged up my camera in prep for when I soon resume my LeMons project. :D

Laerio always looks great.

-Joe

[John A]

What do you think about a head retorque ,Chuck? Might be time

[Chuck in Indiana]

Thanks, Joe.. I need to break out the real camera. I'm too stupid to decide what the cell fone is going to focus on, or when it's actually going to decide to take the picture. 

[Chuck in Indiana]

What do you think about a head retorque ,Chuck? Might be time

Couldn't hurt, I'm right there, and it's so simple to do on a small block. Thanks for the reminder.

[LowRyter]

Glad to see up and doing your thing.  Always entertaining and educational and occasionally, heart warming. 

[beetle]

You'll be adding fuel injection? 

[oldbike54]

You'll be adding fuel injection? 

 Heck , Chuckie is attempting a change to a magneto and a surface flow carburetor 

 Dusty

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Heck , Chuckie is attempting a change to a magneto and a surface flow carburetor 

 Dusty

Well, come to think of it, I have a perfectly set up pair of 30mm carbs and manifolds off the Lario engine.. they'd probably bolt right on instead of the 28s. 
Maybe a project for another time.

[kevdog3019]

Well, come to think of it, I have a perfectly set up pair of 30mm carbs and manifolds off the Lario engine.. they'd probably bolt right on instead of the 28s. 
Maybe a project for another time.

Now you're talking my language!  I'm betting...
I did think of that actually knowing you had those. As you said, see what's there first.

[Muzz]

Well, come to think of it, I have a perfectly set up pair of 30mm carbs and manifolds off the Lario engine.. they'd probably bolt right on instead of the 28s. 
Maybe a project for another time.

Why another time?????????

[Chuck in Indiana]

You'll be adding fuel injection? 

Oh, I don't dislike fuel injection. It has many advantages. Now that we have Guzzi Diag, that gets rid of being tied to the non existent (for me) dealer that may know even less than I do about it. Once set up it is more reliable than carbs in day to day operation. The Mighty Scura has sat for up to 10 months out in California. Just punch the button, and it's running normally. Chances are, there would be some carb issues for a while until the orifices cleaned themselves out.
As Bill used to say, Comma, but..
Suddenly, you are riding along and without warning a cam sensor fails, for instance. I know, it is an unusual occurrence, and it doesn't bother me to be a long way from home on the Mighty Scura. Just the same, you're dead in the water with no hope of getting it running.
I'm an airplane guy. I *wouldn't* want something that fails without warning on an airplane. Carbs and magnetos talk to you and just don't suddenly fail. I can walk pretty well, but I can't fly at all. 
<rant/1>
What I *do* hate is electronic intervention, immobilizers, all that crap. <snapping suspenders> It takes much of the joy of operating the machine out of my hands, or in the case of an immobilizer failure it's dead in the water again.<rant/0>
Color me analog..

[John A]

If I'm a fur piece from home base I like a generator ,magneto and carburators. I bought a steering head bearing conversion from the excellent Pete Roper for our V65 and it's quite a nice improvement . Does the Monza have PHBH's ? Don't over exert today!

[Chuck in Indiana]

If I'm a fur piece from home base I like a generator ,magneto and carburators. I bought a steering head bearing conversion from the excellent Pete Roper for our V65 and it's quite a nice improvement . Does the Monza have PHBH's ? Don't over exert today!

Yeah, it does, and I won't. Thanks for the reminder. 

[Chuck in Indiana]

What I *do* hate is electronic intervention, immobilizers, all that crap. <snapping suspenders> It takes much of the joy of operating the machine out of my hands, or in the case of an immobilizer failure it's dead in the water again.<rant/0>
Color me analog..

Amen!!!

Back in the states.

:-)

That was quick. Welcome back. 

[charlie b]

I will show my ignorance.  Ball bearings in headstock?  Instead of tapered or did they just have bushings?

If I were going to retorque the heads, why not just pull them and make sure the valves are OK?

[Stormtruck2]

That was quick. Welcome back. 

Thanx!
Goose B to  Grand Forks, in Seattle tonite.

:-)

What cha drivin???

[John A]

I will show my ignorance.  Ball bearings in headstock?  Instead of tapered or did they just have bushings?

If I were going to retorque the heads, why not just pull them and make sure the valves are OK?

They have loose ball bearings and the races used to be incredibly expensive . The conversion is to tapered bearings by some adapters that fit in the headstock and a longer stem . I think I got Petes last one more than ten years ago.

[Chuck in Indiana]

I will show my ignorance.  Ball bearings in headstock?  Instead of tapered or did they just have bushings?

If I were going to retorque the heads, why not just pull them and make sure the valves are OK?

Yeah, as John says.. loose balls. I was going to retorque the heads, but had an attack of common sense. I'm still on a 10 lb. weight restriction, and when I started to loosen the first nut thought, "Nope.. not yet." 
What I'd like to do is find a set of heads that need rebuilt, rebuild them at my leisure, and swap them out. I'm actively looking.. I'll put a wanted ad in the classified.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Gulp.. 

[Stormtruck2]

I've had a Duster and Mustang that got that kinda of mileage, but it was 110 low lead avgas. 

[Stormtruck2]

WOW!
I have a company card!

:-)

Company cards are nice.  I was young, single, and in the Navy.  Gas was 50 to 75 cents a gallon.  Amazing how much fuel a blown 440PI with nitrous in a Duster and or a blown Roush boss 302 with nitrous in a Mustang can burn. Tickets cost damn near as much as fuel. 

[Stormtruck2]

That's Macho for sure ha!

But your a bit older now and I'm sure you have slowed down?

I've heard that speed can be dangerous and I don't mean the kind that you swallow!

:-)

edit, Got to thinkin that many of the pilots in my squadron had some kind of a hot rod car,it was expected!
We were always in the fast lane it seems.
Long ago but its like it was yesterday.

Oh the days when we were young an immortal. I healed must faster back then too.  Back then we lived on adrenaline.

[SED]

Ok, let's find out what kind of shape this engine is in.. rolled it around to TDC ready to fire on the Sinestro cylinder, and.. Uh oh. You remember that I've said If you look for trouble in an old machine, you'll find it? The exhaust valve was at essentially zero lash. (!) Better see if it has a burnt valve. Adjusted the valves, brought out my home made leak down tester, and it checked 80/75. Pretty good for a mid time engine. The only leakage was at the intake valve. Hmmmm. Only two things could be going on. Either the exhaust valve is stretching and getting ready to spit the head off, fairly common on small blocks, or the seller adjusted the valves and screwed up.
Let's see what the other side is like. Rolled it up to TDC, and the exhaust valve was .011" Hmmmm. Maybe (probably wishful thinking) Mr. Seller *did* screw up the valve adjustment. Reset them to .006 and .008,

What to do? The Lario isn't the only small block that is capable of dropping exhaust valves.. need to keep a close eye on it.
I think I'll run it for 500 miles, and check them again. If it was just the previous owner screwing up a valve adjustment, they'll still be where I left them. If the exhaust valve is stretching, the clearance will close up, and it's time for a valve job.

Hi Chuck,

Great thread!  It's easy to screw up the valve adjustment on the Monza (for me  - wrong marks but the lash was close enough that I didn't catch it) so that may be the problem.  If the valves have been changed the springs should also have been changed so it's easy to tell.  The original Monza valve springs were dual with inner and outer springs.  These part numbers were superseded by the single variable rate coil springs used on the Nevada.  If yours has the Nevada springs it almost certainly has had its valves replaced. 

[Chuck in Indiana]

I didn't realize that. I'll give them a look. I ran across your great front end tutorial today, btw. 

[lucky phil]

Chuck as one that also used to apply anti-seize to plug threads its interesting to note NGK's recommendations.
Go to 2 minutes in the video.
https://www.ngksparkplugs.com/about-ngk/videos/proper-torque-spark-plugs

Ciao

[kurtis]

Chuck. Kurtis. Can you see me now?  Newbie who, of course, doesn't know anything.