Engine head temp sensor update - Crow for dinner, Humble Pie for desert

[normzone]

WTF?

Background notes - I've been resetting the trip odometer as a fueling reminder, but the ability to reset it ended recently, leaving me with just a functioning, if not a wholly forthcoming speedometer needle for instrumentation.

But based on my memory and the 3x5 card in my wallet covered in notes, I fueled up fifty miles ago.

But when I started it up this morning, the fuel pump sounded a little...anxious. The usual click and hum, instead of being it's usual reassured, business-like self, ended on an uncertain up-pitch, like one of those people you talk to who say everything as if they weren't sure about it, or all statements are really questions.

So, no big deal, keep an eye on it, beautiful day for a ride, let's go. About a block later, sputtering like running out of fuel, then it recovered. Okay, I'll put up with that once, even if it's never done it before. Then it did it again ten seconds later, then again five seconds after that.

Okay, I'm turning around hoping to make it home without a tow. The bike dies a hundred yards downhill from the driveway.

I call for backup. Passer-bys  offer advice, and the guy on the third floor of the apartment building I'm in front of says he'll watch the bike. I love people...sometimes.

With the cap off I can't hear or see gas slosh in the tank. Janet takes me to get a gallon, and begins talking about us buying a truck or a van to save money on towing, and to double as a weekend fun vehicle. We're perpetually strapped for cash, but I like her outlook.

I put a gallon in and turn key. Something screams like a metal filing cabinet dragged across a concrete floor. The bike runs and I take it home. Drive the car to work and here I am.

All counsel appreciated...

[oldbike54]

 Sounds like the pump needs a good flushing out . My external pump needs it every so often . Either that , or it is about to go kablooie 

 Dusty

[rodekyll]

The sound is kinda like it's asking WHY ARE YOU STRANGLING ME?!

It sounds like the classic plugged/inoperative petcock on an external pump FI.  Someone will be along to tell you how to do the plungerectomy to defeat the 'lectricalness of the petcock and you should be ok.

Else, I sucked crap into mine once.  Remember the filter is downstream of the pump, so all crud goes through the impeller before it is filtered out.  The impeller is the pump armature, so if you bind the impeller, you bind the motor.  Reversing the leads on the pump motor will blow anything stuck in there back upstream.

That said, I still like option "A" better.

[fotoguzzi]

you should be able to hear the electric tap open with a clang when you turn on the key.. look at the little wires coming out the bottom of it and see if one broke, it might be hard to notice..

[Wayne Orwig]

Clean the petcock/strainer and flush the tank.
Replace the filter for good measure.
Why not fix the low fuel light?
Why not fix the trip knob?

[normzone]

[OMG] - My parents belonged to an obscure religious sect, whose members were devoted to reducing the amount of telltale indicators active in the known world. They additionally believed that using one's fingers to perform rotating motions with small mechanical fixtures was personally offensive in the eyes of the supreme being that designs, manufactures, sells and services universes. I have attempted to outgrow my upbringing, but it is difficult to overcome the programming installed in your formative years.

Actually, please see the comment above regarding "strapped for cash". And I've not heard anybody speak lovingly of the warning light. I will act on your advice regarding the strainer, the tank and filter though - thank you.

[fotoguzzi] - I will look closely, and listen with both ears this weekend - thank you.

[rodekyll] - The plungerectomy is a permanent mechanical defeat for the electric petcock, rendering it a freeflow zone? Or is it an overhaul? I wait with bated breath for other responses, and I will search this archive tonight.

The filter is downstream of the pump...is that a mechanical necessity, or a vestigial artifact of design philosophy? I will look at momentarily reversing the leads on the pump motor - are there any ECM hazards or fuse dangers to such an act ? Thank you.

[Dusty] - Jack L. Chalker says hello. Let's hope it's flushing, and not kablooie. What are the symptoms of kablooie? Thank you.

So it sounds as though my weekend plans have changed...

[rodekyll]

As I've said in other related topics, these fuel pumps are designed to push, not pull.  They don't like to lift a column of fuel and they don't like sucking through a restriction.  They prefer an oversubstantial gravity feed on the supply side.  So they are more able to deal with a progressively restrictive filter on the downstream side.

From what I understand, the plungerectomy sets the electric petcock into a constant flow position.  Some folks think it's enough to make it permanently open and then unplug it.  Others think the electric pectcock should be done away with completely and replaced with a mechanical valve.  Still others spay or neuter their pet cock and then install a quick disconnect between the spigot and the pump.  This one makes the most sense to me, but I seldom do the sensible thing.  I solved the problem by tossing the gas tank and fueling directly from a pair of 5gal jerry cans.  You may want to wait for someone to describe the plungerectomy before following my lead.

You may also want to verify that you've got an electric petcock and that it's the problem before you delve into fixing it.  You might just have vapor lock.   

[Chet Rugg]

you poured a gallon in it and drove it home.
Did the scream sound continue while riding it home?
Was it just out of gas?

[normzone]

OOG (out of gas) is a possibility, given my tendency to slip through alternate universes. It may be that the guy before me who maintained this bike in this universe fuels it at different intervals than I do.

[Hymes Inc.]

So being a guy who has never ridden a bike with a fancy "fuel pump" the first thing I thought of when I saw the title was, "You can't hurt gravity". File cabinet across concrete, what a lovely sound.

[normzone]

AHA! A plan!

Here's how I see if it happens again without getting stranded downhill from home. I'll ride it up and down the apartment complex driveway to the apartments uphill from mine until:

The neighbors make me stop - or
It does it again - or
Or I feel confident that I was really just out of gas

Stand by...

[Tom H]

FWIW: a EV tank is good for 160mi and not run out. New to the new bikes, from pictures, the Bassa has the same 5 gallon tank.

Hope this helps,
Tom

[Markcarovilli]

So if cash is tight - carry a small plastic gas can you can strap on the back.  No tow and you go.....

Mark

[normzone]

So I ride the bike up the driveway next to my place to the apartments further up the hill, back down and up again three times.

Bike runs fine. I ride to the Shell Station, which is also a Lourdes taco shop and carries about eleventy-seven kinds of gourmet beer.

Bike runs fine. I buy a bottle of beer and fuel the bike - it takes 3.7 gallons. That plus the one I put in it to get home is 4.7, which matches the record for the last time I ran it empty (see link)

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=75723.0;nowap

So, I logged my fuel up out of the memory plan, and the bike ran out of gas in my parking spot.

Thank you all for your help. [Markcarovilli], that's wise. [Hymes], when it did that sound I paused, thought for a long while, and asked my wife how she'd describe that sound - she said wailing. Mine was more precise, but her's accurately described what the bike was trying to tell me.

[Chet], it did not, and you nailed it. [Rodekyll], much thanks for the techxplanation. [OMG], I may compromise with the bicycle speedo fix that [kglorioso] (Ralph) uses. [TomH], the bike gets very poor mileage - 130 to a tank maximum.

So now, about that bottle of beer...

[oldbike54]

  You guys have got to stop attempting to wean your motorbikes off gasoline 

  Dusty

[John A]

Normzone, you must be a pilot
And yes, a Bassa will have an electric petcock unless changed to a manual one with an on off knob

[Tom H]

Another FWIW: My 2004 EVT Hydro, the low fuel light comes on at about 3 to 3.04 gallons used (with freeway riding, goes out off the freeway on the streets, but comes back on a mile or so later).

The 160mi on my EVT was from a Guzzi guru. At 160 you need to stop he said as in now. 130? you may need a tune up?

Tom

[rodekyll]

Norm - and I'm putting this as gently as I can - your gas mileage sucks.  We need to figure out what's up there.  You're hurtin fer certin when my EV-powered, Convert-based, 2x-heavy trike gets better mileage than than your stock 5-speed Bassa.  What have you done to the poor dear?

[ITSec]

OOG (out of gas) is a possibility, given my tendency to slip through alternate universes. It may be that the guy before me who maintained this bike in this universe fuels it at different intervals than I do.

Are you sure that you, yourself, are not actually a Jack Chalker character? 

[oldbike54]

Are you sure that you, yourself, are not actually a Jack Chalker character? 

 Nathan Brazil ? 

 Dusty

[fotoguzzi]

I ran my Bassa dry going 90mph (loaded for 2 week trip) after 164 miles..  lucky me it was near the exit to Welcome MN..
BTW it was 90f and 90% humidity, I needed water more than the Bassa needed fuel..
It's a long story but there's the cliff notes

[Wayne Orwig]

Another FWIW: My 2004 EVT Hydro, the low fuel light comes on at about 3 to 3.04 gallons used (with freeway riding, goes out off the freeway on the streets, but comes back on a mile or so later).

Mine on my 2004 EV comes on at 3.7 gallons used.
But then, that is after I corrected it last year. Yes, the numbskulls that designed it had the light come on at 120 miles, or so, Then you have 60 more miles to go. So I tended to ignore the light, since it is on 30% of the time. So yes, I ran out often. After modifying the sensor, it doesn't light until closer to 150 miles, and you have 30 miles left. So when it lights, you had better look for fuel. I prefer that.

[Wayne Orwig]

Actually, please see the comment above regarding "strapped for cash". And I've not heard anybody speak lovingly of the warning light. I will act on your advice regarding the strainer, the tank and filter though - thank you.

I guess I am used to grabbing a wrench and fixing stuff like that for no, or little, cost.

[normzone]

There was a time when I said things like that also. Not so much any more. The thrill of hauling tools to and from, and then working in a parking space has worn thin.

[Rodekyll], while I accept full responsibility, the poor thing is as I got her. Granted, in 14K miles since acquired, I've never had anybody sync her sexy throttle bodies, or anything else other than tires, shocks, some weld bead on the side stand, a speedo cable, a few batteries, brake pads. It has always had scads of power and piss poor fuel economy - no doubt the Shower Commander III is a factor in that.

[twhitaker]

30mpg? A faulty or poorly connected engine temperature sensor will do that.

[Chuck in Indiana]

30mpg? A faulty or poorly connected engine temperature sensor will do that.

The name of the Chinese pilot says it all. Sum Ting Wong.
I'll get me hat..

[swordds]

Fill up when you can and not when you have to. Perhaps it is a mind-set thing, I used to wait until I thought I was "on empty" (either based on trip odometer or fuel empty light) and then I would start looking for gas. Now I fill up when I can, not when I have to.  I can get 220 miles on a full tank (V7II Stone) without running out (I haven't tried for more) but now any time I have more than 100 -150 miles on a tank I stop and fill up at the first convenient gas station I happen to pass along my route. I find that I am never going out of my way or using Google Maps looking for gas or worring about running out on some deserted back road.

[twhitaker]

Here is a thread about the engine temperature sensor and its adapter
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=43379.0

The adapter is made of plastic and subject to breakage.
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=61859.0 and Howards' post.

Don't know if the brass holder is available any more.

[normzone]

Wow. I have a personal goal of filling up every hundred, or I run out somewhere around 120.

Engine temp sensor? There is a doodad thingy in there with a blue connector...Thanks [Twhitaker].

[twhitaker]

The least risky route would be to wire in the resister & leave the holder alone.

As to the plungerectomy, if you did that you would need to drain the tank the next time you have to remove it.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=30&products_id=39
Much better.