Saw what I thought was a Guzzi in a local junkyard

[Nic in Western NYS]

Then I saw HONDA on the sump.  I had no idea Honda used to put out transverse cylinder twins.  The bike I saw was beat up and stripped down and I thought it was an 850T but was likely a Honda 198x CX500 of some kind.  Those were 80 degree twins.  Anyone know of other bikes that look like Guzzi twins but aren't?

[oldbike54]

 The Lilac , the Victoria Burgmeister , the 741 Indian for starters . There was also a French (I think) design .

 Dusty

[Toecutter]

The CX500. Such an ugly, fantastic little bike.

[Guzzistajohn]

I used to see a National Guard guy every morning flogging the S#$t out of a CX500 leaving the Springfield airport on the way to work. I caught up with him one time just to tell him I liked his riding style

[normzone]

"The CX500"

Ah yes...The Gunda.

[mtiberio]

cx500 => the plastic maggot

[Moto]

We should never forget to mention the Lambretta 250 GP racer of the early 1950's, that had the same basic design as the later Guzzi.

Here are some good photos of it, after it was retrieved under a pile of rubbish at the closed factory(!):

http://www.mcnews.com.au/lambretta-250-grand-prix-racer/

[Sasquatch Jim]

  CX 500  we called them " Water Pumps".
  They were ahead of their time by about 20 years.  Oh, and ugly.

[canuguzzi]

The ugly CX500

http://www.motomucci.com/2011/10/project-cx-full-shoot.html?m=1

So ugly they sold about 300,000 of all models combined.

[n3303j]

....don't forget the CX650!

Always wanted one because it met my criteria. Shaft drive and cylinders where you could get at them.
Was a nice quiet bike too.
Not sure if it was the same as the "Silver Wing"?
GL500 was called Silver Wing before they stuck the name on to a scooter.

[wymple]

I think it's the twist of the heads that turn me off. It's like liver. Cook it anyway you like and it's still liver, which I do not like.

[Kiwi_Roy]

The ugly CX500

http://www.motomucci.com/2011/10/project-cx-full-shoot.html?m=1

So ugly they sold about 300,000 of all models combined.

Don't forget they also made a 650 and a Turbo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mE1mtnZcAg
One of the guys in our club has one.

[kidneb]

We should never forget to mention the Lambretta 250 GP racer of the early 1950's, that had the same basic design as the later Guzzi.

Here are some good photos of it, after it was retrieved under a pile of rubbish at the closed factory(!):

http://www.mcnews.com.au/lambretta-250-grand-prix-racer/

Thanks for posting that. I never came across that Lambretta before. Very interesting.


"This bike (number one of the two built) was discovered by Lambretta enthusiast Vittorio Tessera, abandoned under a pile of rubbish after the factory was closed in 1972."





And we`ll leave that "transverse" versus "longitudinal" mounted engine issue for another thread.               (ha,- I remembered to add a smily this time ! ) Fun fun

[johnr]

That racing Lambretta looks to be an interesting machine! Pity they didn't produce a road going version. (did they?) The CX 500, Test rode one once. Bleah! I was less than impressed.

The pots stuck out into clear unobstructed air, ideal for air cooling, so they water cooled it! All that extra cost and complexity just so the salesman can say "Look! It has water cooling!"

Handling and performance was no better than a mid 50s 500 banger of outer Pomgolian extraction.

In fact in the handling stakes I  would say it was worse, due to it's top heavy weight distribution and useless suspension.

Still, they sold a few, so I guess some people loved them. Good salesmen those Japanese!

[oldbike54]

 "Outer pomgolian"    

 Dusty

[jim_W]

I had a 1983  GL650 SilverWing  a few years back. Mine was the "naked" version without the fairing and bags.   Some modifications to the suspension and it made a good ride to work and back. The 650 was geared better for freeway riding and had plenty of power. Timing chain failure and pistons contacted valves. Honda does not have parts for them anymore.
I was thinking the 650 was a 90 degree motor but I may be wrong. I would buy another if I find one in good condition at the right price.

[johnr]

Timing chain failure and pistons contacted valves. Honda does not have parts for them anymore.

I'm led to believe Jim, though I have been unable to verify (not that I've actually tried) that Honda does not keep parts for any bike over 10 years old. When they reach that age remaining parts are taken out and dumped in the sea.

Having said that, valves and pistons are semi universal. If the OEM parts are no longer available there is a good chance your local auto engineer can dig up others that will do the job, maybe with minor modification. (I know there is a "great big book of pistons" for example though I doubt it's called that.) Once you have found some other part that will fit you then take careful note of what it's off. Welcome to the world of vintage machinery .

[chuck peterson]

We should never forget to mention the Lambretta 250 GP racer of the early 1950's, that had the same basic design as the later Guzzi.

Here are some good photos of it, after it was retrieved under a pile of rubbish at the closed factory(!):

http://www.mcnews.com.au/lambretta-250-grand-prix-racer/

Sweet looking motor!

[oldbike54]

I'm led to believe Jim, though I have been unable to verify (not that I've actually tried) that Honda does not keep parts for any bike over 10 years old. When they reach that age remaining parts are taken out and dumped in the sea.

Having said that, valves and pistons are semi universal. If the OEM parts are no longer available there is a good chance your local auto engineer can dig up others that will do the job, maybe with minor modification. (I know there is a "great big book of pistons" for example though I doubt it's called that.) Once you have found some other part that will fit you then take careful note of what it's off. Welcome to the world of vintage machinery .

 Don't believe they are actually dumped in the sea  It's funny , at one time Honda gauranteed parts for any MC they ever built , then things got complicated about 1968 .

 There was a great tale re the use of several sets of CX mufflers . Sometime in the 1980's Honda's dynomometer facility was being encroached on by new housing developments . Folks were complaining about the racket , and Honda was at a loss for a solution . One of their young employees suggested using a number of the left over CX mufflers as a way to muffle the sound , it worked , and he or she was rewarded . Think the mufflers were attached to a large manifold that the exhaust fans blew through .

 Dusty

[Mr Revhead]

Parts for CX500s are not that hard to find. Luckily, because I have 2!
Some things are NLA genuine, but substitutes are out there and some things are even being remade aftermarket due to the demand.
The value of CX's has moon rocketed in the last 3 years. I bought both of mine for under $500 each. Now bikes in the same condition (non running) are selling for over $1000, and scruffy but road legal ones are $2k+ Mint ones are selling for $4500+
Sure that's not investment league, but it's not bad going for some thing nicked names "Plastic Maggot" and "Sewer Pump"

My two are CX500 Customs by the way.
Look good parked next to me 03 Cali. And just quietly more reliable.... 

[Moto]

That racing Lambretta looks to be an interesting machine! Pity they didn't produce a road going version. (did they?)...

It's interesting, for sure.

From various accounts on the internet (including the cited one):

1. All agree there were only two bikes produced.

2. The model was introduced at the 1951 Milan show, or in 1950 according to a different account.

3. The two bikes were raced in GP250 between 1951 and 1953.

This is just barely plausible to me, and I forget where I read it:

4. Lambretta feared Moto Guzzi was about to enter the small-wheeled scooter market, which had developed post-WWII. This model was intended as a shot across the bow to tell Guzzi that Lambretta might compete in the motorcycle market against it. In reaction [so goes the story], Guzzi decided not to compete in the Vespa/Lambretta market, and instead continued on in the low-cost transportation genre with its large-wheeled Galletto (introduced in 1950).

My own thoughts:

If it indeed developed from two valves to four valves per cylinder so quickly, it was obviously a racer. It doesn't look much different from a street bike, but racers of that era weren't that different.

The frame looks strange to my modern eyes because there is no downtube nor any connection between the forward part of the engine and the frame. The engine is supported by those side-frames and the steering head is supported by a frame cantilevered from the rear. At first I thought this was a symptom of having been penned by a scooter designer, but the designer mentioned in the cited article was also responsible for the famous Gilera Saturno, which was no scooter.

Maybe the frame was better than it looks, considering the low power available, and maybe it was originally designed as a racer. Or perhaps it was indeed developed as a prototype for eventual production, complete with a scooterish frame, but was then abandoned when Guzzi backed away.

Pretty interesting claims. Would be nice to know the truth.

Moto

[canuguzzi]

I'm led to believe Jim, though I have been unable to verify (not that I've actually tried) that Honda does not keep parts for any bike over 10 years old. When they reach that age remaining parts are taken out and dumped in the sea.

Having said that, valves and pistons are semi universal. If the OEM parts are no longer available there is a good chance your local auto engineer can dig up others that will do the job, maybe with minor modification. (I know there is a "great big book of pistons" for example though I doubt it's called that.) Once you have found some other part that will fit you then take careful note of what it's off. Welcome to the world of vintage machinery .

Nope, parts are available for older Honda models. Walk in and ask. Just like Yamaha does.

Ordered some parts for a 91 Hawk, air filter, lower air cleaner housing and parts to connect to the carbs. Yes sir, Honda has them in stock, they'll be here next Wed. Those are bike specific parts.

Parts for the CX are easily obtained, not so much for the 650 but for the 500, just order them.

[Nic in Western NYS]

A reflection on my (the OP's) complete and utter lack of knowledge on this subject and the replies from the posters: wow, lots of info around here.

[Dave Swanson]

I had a 1983  GL650 SilverWing  a few years back. Mine was the "naked" version without the fairing and bags.   Some modifications to the suspension and it made a good ride to work and back. The 650 was geared better for freeway riding and had plenty of power. Timing chain failure and pistons contacted valves. Honda does not have parts for them anymore.
I was thinking the 650 was a 90 degree motor but I may be wrong. I would buy another if I find one in good condition at the right price.

Here you go!



http://appleton.craigslist.org/mcy/5579408159.html

[jim_W]

If that was a 1983 650 I would be all over it.

[johnr]

Nope, parts are available for older Honda models. Walk in and ask. Just like Yamaha does.

Ordered some parts for a 91 Hawk, air filter, lower air cleaner housing and parts to connect to the carbs. Yes sir, Honda has them in stock, they'll be here next Wed. Those are bike specific parts.

Parts for the CX are easily obtained, not so much for the 650 but for the 500, just order them.

OK , well that's great news for those as has em.

[Huzo]

The CX500. Such an ugly, fantastic little bike.

In Australia they were known as the "Plastic Maggot"

[Dave Swanson]

If that was a 1983 650 I would be all over it.

OK Jim!  This one is a charmer.



http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/mcy/5599371649.html

[canuguzzi]

The side bags are very rare, they also fit the V65/V45 Sabres Turbo and CBX (if you have mounts). In near perfect shape you could buy the CX, sell the bags and have the bike for half the price paid.

[canuguzzi]

Looks like it was it impacted on the cylinder head too. Check it over carefully as while parts are available, that doesn't mean inexpensive.