Mysteries of starter life

[yackee]

I had the ski boat out on the lake this Memorial Day, packed full of kids; when switching from one set of kids to the other on the inner tube, the motor decided to no longer start. After an embarrassing tow back to the dock by an older couple in an ancient pontoon, and after some basic trouble-shooting, including the spark-flying-screwdriver trick, I determined that the starter motor itself had failed. (I was *really* hoping it was the $20 starter relay, but no luck).
 
So here's the tie to Guzzi. My '76 T3 has the original starter. It still cranks reliably, as long as the battery has charge and as long as my butt isn't shorting out the battery terminals. The bike is 40 years old this year, it has 40,000 miles, I imagine it has been started hundreds upon hundreds of times. Now, my boat engine (a Volvo Penta 4.3)  is only 10 years old; the boat is only used on the weekends, during our short summers here in Wisconsin The engine has been cranked a fraction of the times that my T3's has.

So why does the 40 YO starter continue to function while the modern, barely-used starter fails? Just bad luck? Were things made "better" back in the day? What makes a starter fail anyway?

   

[oldbike54]

 Probably the difference in conditions and usage . The boat motor lives in a wet environment , the bike doesn't . My Jackal lived a good portion of its life in Nor Cal and has the original starter motor after 130K miles , curious to see how much longer it lasts in our wet environment here in N.E. Oklahoma .

 Dusty

[fotoguzzi]

I have no idea but do know Volvo parts aren't cheap. Time to get a new boat with a Honda outboard?

[Kiwi_Roy]

You'll probably find the starter is fine but let down by some other device in the circuit.
Starters are very reliable, especially the simple ones like a Bosch direct drive, Velio not so reliable.

[rodekyll]

I'd speculate that most vehicles never have a starter replaced. 

That said, it looks like I'm buying another valeo starter (maybe).  The one in the rodekyll started disengaging early and also started spinning before engaging.  I suspect it's the solenoid pull in coil not handing off duty to the hold in coil in sync with the main button getting pushed.  I have the carcass of the last valeo already scattered (spun a magnet) so I'll try a mix-n-match before spending money.  That's two valeos in less than a year (different bikes).

[ibis1]

My experience with Volvo starter motors. Land Rover had an entry level vehicle (LR2 stateside & Freelander ROW) that used an Volvo 3.2L inline 6 engine. This engine ate starter motors for breakfast, lunch and dinner. All of our other models (Mostly V-8's) never needed to have the starters replaced even well after 100,000 miles. That may change now with the Eco Stop-Start system that shuts the vehicle down at every stop light and restarts when you pull off. 

[lucian]

Marine starters have to operate in a tough environment. Moisture and corrosion is constant, sticking brushes and Bendix's are common. Another problem is corroded battery cables causing excessive resistance and forcing the starter to operate with reduced voltage. Marine batteries are commonly down on charge from periods of sitting with draws from bilge pumps and other parasitic drains. We used to send the starters in lobster boats out every winter to get rebuilt weather they needed it or not.

[RinkRat II]

 Lucian has hit the nail on the head. As far as Volvo goes ,that 4.3 is nothing more than a 25year old GM V6 design.Parts will be cheap to find as that starter was used on a gazillion small GM trucks. Happy Hunting


  Paul B.

[Madtownguzzi]

I would only use a marine starter in a boat because they have a spark arester built in with out it you could blow up your boat if you do not use your bilge blower. Same goes for the alternator marine only. Take your starter off and get it rebuilt.

[rodekyll]

I would only use a marine starter in a boat because they have a spark arester built in with out it you could blow up your boat if you do not use your bilge blower. Same goes for the alternator marine only. Take your starter off and get it rebuilt.

Why is a spark arrestor a bad thing?

[Madtownguzzi]

Why is a spark arrestor a bad thing?

The inboard outboard engine is enclosed and any gas fumes will possibly ignite with an electrical spark. Before starting an inboard boat you should run the bilge blower for 5 minutes to exhaust any possible fumes.

More here:  http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engine-repair-and-maintenance/mercruiser-i-o-inboard-engines-outdrives/44251-marine-vs-auto-starter-for-my-4-3-liter-i-o

[rodekyll]

Good grief.  Let me rephrase:

Why is a spark arrestor-equipped starter a bad thing on a non-marine engine?  Why should we rebuild our old starter rather than buying a marine version?  Is there something about the spark arrestor built into the marine version of a starter that makes it a bad thing for a bike?

[lucian]

Why is a spark arrestor-equipped starter a bad thing on a non-marine engine?  Why should we rebuild our old starter rather than buying a marine version?  Is there something about the spark arrestor built into the marine version of a starter that makes it a bad thing for a bike?

Encased starters such as marine are more prone to problems from condensation because they don't dry out internally.