I'm in Mandello. Are CARC bikes in production? No.

[cruzziguzzi]

Misposted elsewhere and yet oddly....


Gentlemen, ahhemmm... I say, GENTLEMEN - please do refrain from poking the bear, bears, bear-like entities and even those who may merely smell like bears... or wallabies as it were.


Todd.

[bad Chad]

The end of the modern running gear Guzzi is not over.  Something NEW will come before long.

[beetle]

Whatever it is, it won't be water cooled.

[pete roper]

If that is the case it will be a shame as I think water cooling will be needed not only to make it quiet enough for E5 but also to help with emissions control with less bulk than the single TB and plenum, RBW system used on the Cali 14.

I know lots of people hate it but RBW allows much more accurate control of mixture and delivery. Given what we don't know about how various sensor inputs interact with one another with the W5AM the much greater sophistication of something like the 7SM will no doubt present both great opportunities but also considerably more complexity. I fully expect though that no matter what the systems potential it won't be exploited fully. We'll just get another example of 'make the maps soggy rich and then let the O2 sensors trim the mix to incombustibly'. Bleargh!

As to what is coming down the pipeline? I have absolutely no idea but at the moment it certainly looks like nothing that holds any interest for me apart from technically.

Pete

[beetle]

We might see water cooled heads.

[LowRyter]

Heck , until meeting Deke in person I thought he was Ewan McGregor 

 Dusty

yeah.  I have to give credit to Dusty and Cedar Vale on that one.  I thought he was an internet bot until I actually saw him. Deke is real as in human. Nice guy too. 

Saw him at Springfield last year too.  I'd post a photo but no bandwidth at the campground and my phone.  Maybe in OKC too?  will he ride?

[LowRyter]

I am hopeful there is a Sport(y) Guzzi in R&D.  But if it  doesn't go in production until January, we won't see for another 18 months.

[oldbike54]

We might see water cooled heads.

 OK , let's see how far off I am in some theory . Pete , and you other gurus feel free to correct me 

 Given water cooled heads , and some decent 2 valve hemi head chambers , and current bore/stroke ratio on the upcoming 850 SB , where do we end up . Based on what I know about the limits of a pushrod 2 valve design , which Nascar engine builders have proven can flow pretty well with relatively high compression , we can expect reliable output in the neighborhood of 100 HP per liter . Multiplied by .85 we get 85 crankshaft HP . Now , this is all dependent on proper camshaft design and some fairly sophisticated port shapes , intake and exhaust runner design , and of course proper fueling . So what , 10 % loss thru the drivetrain leaves us with 77.5 RWHP . So with production variations , we could have 73 RWHP . Installed in a proper modern chassis with modern rising rate rear suspension , and some decent forks , nothing too hi-tech , with a wet weight target of say 450 lbs , we get a power to weight ratio of , let's see, carry the one, of 6 lbs per HP . OK not earth shattering , but should be lively enough .

 Alright , how far off am I , go ahead I can take it 

  Dusty

[krglorioso]

This news reminds me of when I was a teenager and found out David Lee Roth was leaving Van Halen.......

Next, you'll be telling us the Dodgers re leaving Brooklyn.

Ralph

[cruzziguzzi]

I don't see how water cooling can possibly be avoided indefinitely regardless of consumer apathy about perceived performance paring. The constraints of "testing" will demand the silencing nature of water jackets and optimal emissions available from a strictly controlled testing temperature.

Air cooling can't last too much longer.

But go figure, first the "round earthers" came after our carburetors and it's only a matter of time before we have the yokes of water pumps about our necks along with those poxy fuel pumps.

Tubeless tires, electronic ignition, fuel injection and now water pumps.... when will it end? BASTIDGES!




Todd.

[Demar]

Next, you'll be telling us the Dodgers re leaving Brooklyn.

Ralph

C'-mon now.... easy.... I'm still trying to get over the news that David Lee Roth left Van Halen.

[beetle]

 
 Alright , how far off am I , go ahead I can take it 

I can't see Guzzi squeezing anything like those numbers from a SB 2V pushrod engine. A higher revving 8V (cam in head) SB might do it. A conservative 70 RWHP in a Bellagio style chassis with USD forks.


Belsen & bebop, Dusty! You've turned me into one of them dreamers. Next I'll  be on bike exif Photoshopping poxy Le Mans V7 mashups. Eek! 

[oldbike54]

I can't see Guzzi squeezing anything like those numbers from a SB 2V pushrod engine. A higher revving 8V (cam in head) SB might do it. A conservative 70 RWHP in a Bellagio style chassis with USD forks.


Belsen & bebop, Dusty! You've turned me into one of them dreamers. Next I'll  be on bike exif Photoshopping poxy Le Mans V7 mashups. Eek! 

 Glad I could be of service Mark , and Louie was a cool cat . Got to meet him years ago at a jazz clinic 

 OK , so maybe 4 valve heads will be necessary , but modern Corvettes produce big numbers from cam in block 2 valve designs . Of course they have the advantage of really large intake boxes , and large tuned exhaust systems .

 Go ahead and dream mate , sometimes dreams are better than reality 

 Dusty

[rboe]

And Corvettes are water cooled. 

You know, for our life times, such as they are, we'll have plenty of air cooled bikes to choose from if that is where you want to stay at. But life goes on, and if you don't keep up the world will just pass you by and you stand there and snap your suspenders.

I'm going to wait and see what they come up with. If they have something cool that I'd like to buy, great! If not, there are other bikes out there. Lot's of choices for us. Including old stock.

[booob]

"I'm in Mandello, now i know everything moto guzzi".. what a bunch of hicks.

Bring back the Ivar de Gier post "goodbye mandello - guzzi" from 7 years ago, i wanna laugh again how you yahoos took his word as gospel.

Lol

[beetle]

And Corvettes are water cooled. 

With more cubes.

[beetle]

"I'm in Mandello, now i know everything moto guzzi".. what a bunch of hicks.

Bring back the Ivar de Gier post "goodbye mandello - guzzi" from 7 years ago, i wanna laugh again how you yahoos took his word as gospel.

Lol

Hmm. 9 posts in 6 years. Booob indeed.

[oldbike54]

With more cubes.

 Well Duh  I am talking HP per liter and merely used the gen II small block Chevrolet as an example of what can be done .

 Dusty

[oldbike54]

"I'm in Mandello, now i know everything moto guzzi".. what a bunch of hicks.

Bring back the Ivar de Gier post "goodbye mandello - guzzi" from 7 years ago, i wanna laugh again how you yahoos took his word as gospel.

Lol

 Troll .

 Dusty

[pete roper]

Apart from the obvious trollishness of the post the fact is that Ago's has a lot of contacts within the factory, always has, and Daniel is someone who, if he tells you something, you could put your house on!

Those earlier comments by Ivan were not universally accepted and I for one, (And I'm far from alone!) actually heaved a sigh of relief when a mob with money actually bought the name and everything that went with it and was eager to see what would eventuate.

What did was far more exciting and, (With the one glaring flaw!) well engineered and enabled Guzzi to once again hold its head up as a producer of 'Modern' motorbikes with a range of models covering a full spectrum of market niches.

What I find so disappointing at the moment is that it seems all innovation has been killed and what we are left with are stylistic excercises using dressed up, obsolete, frame and suspension technology.

To my mind a 'Baby' Hi-Cam with twin TB-RBW control stuffed into a series of different, modern, chassis would be a wonderful thing and a good seller, both to the 'Old School' and the newer market. Why they have gone with the weak, dirty, Hemi-head 2VPC design is beyond me. Launching it in a machine that they say pays homage to the 'Nevada' probably one of the worst and universally despised of the smallblocks during their entire, long, production life simply shows how far out of touch the people running the joint are!

No offence implied to Nevada owners. If you love your steeds all power to you but to most people they are hideous!

Pete

[fossil]

No offence implied to Nevada owners. If you love your steeds all power to you but to most people they are hideous!

Maybe. But both V9 models obviously are not. And they have air-cooled engines with classical look-and-feel that are Euro 4 - compatible. Engines that are a joy to drive and that feel definitely superior to their predecessor. Which I own and love.

[pikipiki]

There was a time when they quit making 850-Ts and SPs and Californias and Ambassadors and...........
Come to think of it, Moto Guzzi has quit making nearly every single bike that they ever made!!!!!!
I can't breathe............

Yes and even though we thought the Nevada had not been in production for several years - New Nevadas with the single TB motors appeared last year?
May be in a year or two Luigi will check the spares inventory count the carc drives, exclaim 'Mama Mia' and set about building another 100 Norge.

I do wonder, Guzzi being a small volume manufacturer, they come with a new design, decide they can sell 20,000 of them over the next 5 years, sign contracts with suppliers and well inevitably popular models short production runs, unpopular models like nevada's long,long production runs.

[Zoom Zoom]

"I'm in Mandello, now i know everything moto guzzi".. what a bunch of hicks.

Bring back the Ivar de Gier post "goodbye mandello - guzzi" from 7 years ago, i wanna laugh again how you yahoos took his word as gospel.

Lol

Humm. At the time, it was gospel. It was only outcry of many people that prompted Piaggio to keep things there.

As for Ivar, I have met him personally. Salt of the earth kind of guy. He is one of the nicest, most unassuming people I have ever met. Furthermore, a huge number of the bike in the museum actually belong to him, NOT Moto Guzzi. His grandfather, father and even he himself, were personal friends of Carlo Guzzi. You or I might get as far as the gift shop. He would be welcomed in as family. People, and companies DO change their mind sometimes. Remember the Ford Probe? That was supposed to be the next Mustang. It was because of outcry from Mustang enthusiasts, that Ford dropped the idea and renamed the car.

In reading your post, I would like to say more but I decided not to stoop to your level! 

John Henry

[blackcat]

Humm. At the time, it was gospel. It was only outcry of many people that prompted Piaggio to keep things there.

As for Ivar, I have met him personally. Salt of the earth kind of guy. He is one of the nicest, most unassuming people I have ever met. Furthermore, a huge number of the bike in the museum actually belong to him, NOT Moto Guzzi. His grandfather, father and even he himself, were personal friends of Carlo Guzzi. You or I might get as far as the gift shop. He would be welcomed in as family. People, and companies DO change their mind sometimes. Remember the Ford Probe? That was supposed to be the next Mustang. It was because of outcry from Mustang enthusiasts, that Ford dropped the idea and renamed the car.

In reading your post, I would like to say more but I decided not to stoop to your level! 

John Henry

 

[charlie b]

Why is anyone surprised?

What is selling?  Big cali cruisers and the V7's.  What is left over and being sold cheap?  Stelvio and Norge.  Has been that way for a while.

So, why would Piaggio produce more of the Stelvio and Norge type bikes?

Yeah, I would hope that the V9 will turn into a line of bikes, like a mini-Stelvio, Norge or Griso, but, I kinda doubt it.  And I find it frustrating that they did not go with a modern engine design or a good suspension.  But....given V7 sales, why go high tech when the current low tech stuff sells?

But, don't listen to me, I am part of the problem.  Haven't bought a new bike in 6 years and nothing I see tempts me to buy another.  So, my 32 yr old bike will suffice for another 10 years.  Heck, it doesn't even have 100k mile on it yet :)

[sib]

Next, you'll be telling us the Dodgers re leaving Brooklyn.

Ralph

Or that Dylan is going electric.

[Lcarlson]

Apart from the obvious trollishness of the post the fact is that Ago's has a lot of contacts within the factory, always has, and Daniel is someone who, if he tells you something, you could put your house on!

Those earlier comments by Ivan were not universally accepted and I for one, (And I'm far from alone!) actually heaved a sigh of relief when a mob with money actually bought the name and everything that went with it and was eager to see what would eventuate.

What did was far more exciting and, (With the one glaring flaw!) well engineered and enabled Guzzi to once again hold its head up as a producer of 'Modern' motorbikes with a range of models covering a full spectrum of market niches.

What I find so disappointing at the moment is that it seems all innovation has been killed and what we are left with are stylistic excercises using dressed up, obsolete, frame and suspension technology.

To my mind a 'Baby' Hi-Cam with twin TB-RBW control stuffed into a series of different, modern, chassis would be a wonderful thing and a good seller, both to the 'Old School' and the newer market. Why they have gone with the weak, dirty, Hemi-head 2VPC design is beyond me. Launching it in a machine that they say pays homage to the 'Nevada' probably one of the worst and universally despised of the smallblocks during their entire, long, production life simply shows how far out of touch the people running the joint are!

No offence implied to Nevada owners. If you love your steeds all power to you but to most people they are hideous!

Pete

With the demise of the CARC bikes, the most glaring hole in the lineup is a big block model that isn't a cruiser. It seems to me that Guzzi doesn't have to reinvent the wheel here; they can build a new standard (or a series of models) around the 1400 platform. Nevermind watercooling, etc. (at least for now). They have a strong, modern motor and driveline currently available for additional applications. I boldly predict that's what we'll actually see next. Chassis and suspension are open questions.

So tell me why I'm wrong....

[steven c]

But can they shave a couple of hundred pounds off the 1400 platform to make a standard?

[oldbike54]

"I'm in Mandello, now i know everything moto guzzi".. what a bunch of hicks.

Bring back the Ivar de Gier post "goodbye mandello - guzzi" from 7 years ago, i wanna laugh again how you yahoos took his word as gospel.

Lol

 Gotta be Enzo .

  Dusty

[ITSec]

With the demise of the CARC bikes, the most glaring hole in the lineup is a big block model that isn't a cruiser. It seems to me that Guzzi doesn't have to reinvent the wheel here; they can build a new standard (or a series of models) around the 1400 platform. Nevermind watercooling, etc. (at least for now). They have a strong, modern motor and driveline currently available for additional applications. I boldly predict that's what we'll actually see next. Chassis and suspension are open questions.

So tell me why I'm wrong....

Well, one of the key things to keep weight down and handling up is a modern single-sided swingarm. The back end of the current 1400 would need a complete redesign. The frame is also poorly suited to non-cruiser designs IMHO. The current 1400 would need to lose at least 150 lbs (65 kilos for the educated among us) to get somewhere near its competitors, and to leave room for the returned weight of luggage and fairing in future developments.

There's a clear gap between the bored-out small block and the largest big-block, and the next generation (if it comes to be) needs to have power and weight approaching that of the Caponord, without necessarily pushing the envelope with electronic suspension and similar extremes. It also needs to be in the 525-625 lb weight class. Otherwise, it's relegated to cult status before ever leaving the drawing board (most Guzzis achieve that status only after reaching showroom floors, or even customer delivery!  )