Are Roller engine Stelvio top ends louder than non roller...?

[radguzzi]

I have the opportunity to buy a very slightly used '14 Stelvio if I want to throw the money at the deal.   I went to have a look and more importantly, a listen to the Stelvio and was taken with the top end engine noise...!

Now I'm not a relative new comer although I confess to only have been riding Guzzis since 1983 but that top end noise was startling.

So, part of the deal, no big ta-do or is there something lurking there... potentially..?  Needing an adjustment...?  Do Roller engines need adjustment...?

Help me out here please...

As always, Thanks.
Rob

[pyoungbl]

Rollers are not louder.  They do need adjustment just like any other Guzzi (except the hydro ones).  I have mine set at .006" and .008" so there is a satisfying tappity tap as the engine ticks over.   If the one you are looking at makes too much noise you might want to actually check the lash.  It is possible that the current owner has not been maintaining the engine.  I'd expect the gap to close up, not get wider, but Pete Roper might have other things for you to look at.

[Markcarovilli]

you can here them on mine - better than not hearing them.....

Yes mine has rollers.

Mark

[pete roper]

How loud is a piece of string?

8V's generally are noisy. The exceptions being the AA motors which can sometimes be disturbingly quiet in flat tappet form, until they die!

Roller motors tend to vary but overall they are not only noisier than earlier pushrod motors they can vary from engine to engine for no apparent reason! As with any machine that you don't have certainty about, including new ones, the first thing to do is check the tune which is no harder than any other Guzzi and with the W5AM controller is delightfully simple.

Contrary to expectations the valve lash on roller motors opens up significantly as the engine heats up. Regardless of what is actually recommended I set it to 0.1mm inlet and 0.15 exhaust, (4 & 6 thou.) respectively and these are the specs Mark's maps are built to. The 8V's because of their head design and cam profiling are very sensitive to valve clearances so keeping them close is very important, especially if you're running an open loop map.

Long story short, since the long overdue change to the roller top end in mid 2012 on the 1200 8V they have been generally noisier but as reliable as an anvil! Oh that they had got the design right in the first place! If they had that motor would of been right up there in the motorbike donk pantheon rather than being relegated to the dark recesses of suspicion where it now languishes!

Buy it. Tune it. Map it properly. Grease the swingarm bearings and shock linkage bearings. Go ride the piss out of it.

Pete

[Daniel Kalal]

8V's generally are noisy

Agreement.  I rarely ride mine without earplugs, but on the occasion I do (moving the bike after checking into a hotel, for instance) I'm astonished at how crappy and rattley the thing sounds.  That's true of the various Stelvios I've ridden from Agostini's as well.  Earplugs in; all is well.

[Markcarovilli]

How loud is a piece of string?

8V's generally are noisy. The exceptions being the AA motors which can sometimes be disturbingly quiet in flat tappet form, until they die!

Roller motors tend to vary but overall they are not only noisier than earlier pushrod motors they can vary from engine to engine for no apparent reason! As with any machine that you don't have certainty about, including new ones, the first thing to do is check the tune which is no harder than any other Guzzi and with the W5AM controller is delightfully simple.

Contrary to expectations the valve lash on roller motors opens up significantly as the engine heats up. Regardless of what is actually recommended I set it to 0.1mm inlet and 0.15 exhaust, (4 & 6 thou.) respectively and these are the specs Mark's maps are built to. The 8V's because of their head design and cam profiling are very sensitive to valve clearances so keeping them close is very important, especially if you're running an open loop map.

Long story short, since the long overdue change to the roller top end in mid 2012 on the 1200 8V they have been generally noisier but as reliable as an anvil! Oh that they had got the design right in the first place! If they had that motor would of been right up there in the motorbike donk pantheon rather than being relegated to the dark recesses of suspicion where it now languishes!

Buy it. Tune it. Map it properly. Grease the swingarm bearings and shock linkage bearings. Go ride the piss out of it.

Pete

Pete - what map would you recommend for the Stelvio?

Mark

[tazio]

Data point, my flat tappet Stelvio was much less noisy than my new 2015 roller Griso.

[pete roper]

Well it depends on the Stelvio.

As usual I would advise strongly against using stupid rock strainer air filters and if changing the pipe do so to something that at least has a dB killer and leave it in. The early single lambda bikes have pretty ordinary mapping, the twin lambda map is actually pretty good, (By the low standards of Guzzi mapping!). Both Mark and John, (Xltra.) have Stelvio maps that have received the tick of approval from owners but I really don't have enough experience of map swapping between Stelvios to offer a concrete opinion. Single lambda bikes with ABS require a different map to those without and single and twin lambda bikes also require different mapping.

Pete

[radguzzi]

Ok then, the valves were done at the first service by a very good dealer in the Northeast so I guess my perception of the loud top end is both my perception and a fact of the later engines.

The map is stock.  10-4 on the lash, swing arm and shock linkage bearings. 

Dan'l,
I too always use earplugs, I happened to hear this one as he dealer sales guy rode it up to the front door. 

Thanks,
Rob

[guzzisteve]

And you thought the old 2V motor had loud valves, quiet compared to the rattletrap engine.

[Wayne Orwig]

Depends.
My 2009 would make a LOT of noise when the oil got hot, and the cams would bang back and forth. It sounded like a cement mixer.
In later years they shimmed the cams so they didn't bang back and forth, so they were quieter when hot.
Then along came the roller followers. Those cams appear to be side loaded/shimmed, so that don't thrash around. You of course still have the valve clearance, so you have tapping. And you now have to add in a new sound of the rollers 'wooshing' around.

So no, my cam rollerization is no where near as quiet as my hydraulic lifter EV. It doesn't have the 'cement mixer' loudness of the flat tappets. But the rollers and clearances still make a good bit of noise.

Looking at a used bike, have a valve cover pulled to verify it. Easy to do.

 

[MGPilot]

When riding a 2v just before a 4v in the purchase process, I thought the 2v engine was quieter and had a more mellow sound that I liked a lot better. The 4v engine had a much louder (I assume - valve train) sound that still reminds me of an industrial sewing machine sound. That sound has decreased over time but may be a little louder when the engine is cold.

Yet, the4v seemed to have better seating and engine response.

So I went with the 4v and have been pleased as that sewing machine sound has decreased. But seating position is subjective. I can easily understand someone preferring the 2v engine.