EV wobble?

[Alchymyst]

Hi all,

Picked up my new to me '99 V11 EV 2 weeks ago.  On one ride the front wheel started to wobble side to side.  Speed at about 80mph, on a 2 lane with sharp horizontal ridges about every hundred yards.  Backed off throttle and it smoothed out.   
Took the bike to Ned's for a complete going through.  Steering head bearings are good, but needed a bit tightening.  On same stretch of road home, same wobble. No problem at 65-70, but at higher speed it started again.  Is this just a characteristic I should live with or does anyone have any insight on this?  New to MG, but have ridden this road at speed before on other bikes with no wobble.  Thanks for any info.

[Rich A]

Not typical. Do you have a windscreen or bags mounted? If so, you might try removing them temporarily to see if that "fixes" the problem.

Rich A

[oldbike54]

 Not characteristic of any Guzzi , the Tonti framed California models are rock steady at 100 MPH . Sounds like a tire is out of whack .

 Dusty

[normzone]

See if the bike will do that speed on a different road with no trouble.

I picked up a Goldwing from my brother in AZ a few years ago, and periodically tried to find out what the top speed was on the way home to CA.

I couldn't get past the low nineties without a wobble in Arizona, so I figured it was a tire issue or something.

But later on in California things improved - no wobble in the nineties and the bike would do an indicated 135. Road conditions...

Oh, and which EV do you have? I'm your '99 brother, I have a white Bassa.

[Kiwi Dave]

This topic had extensive coverage on Guzzitech a few months back.

I once owned three EV Tourings and still possess one.  I found at speed (80mph +) the steering would get a little uncertain, and it discouraged me from going any faster (that, and the threat of walking if caught!).

What appears to help was swapping the rear tyre from a 140/80 to a 150/70.  Not sure why this should make things better, but it did for me.

As usual, my $0.02¢.

[Guzzidad]

    Most likely the steering damper. Remove and inspect. Adjust the drag to a light setting and re-install. Cured my 01 EV

[FGO]

Just a shot in the dark, my 02 Cal SS developed a wobble with great suspension. I hunted everything, then found that several spokes were broken which caused the wobble, replaced them and trued the wheel and it is dead stable at all speeds.  Dave is right, the right tires do make a difference. I always used Dunlop radial 105's until they quit selling them, now I use sport demons and my cali handles the dogs danglies and is dead stable at all speeds.  Check your spokes, and consider a tire change.  However, I have used many types of tires and other than the spoke issue, I found every tire to be stable. I did drop my forks a bit for quicker turn in, but that should contribute to instability,    good luck and let us know what you find.
Cheers,

[LaMojo]

My 98 EV did that.  The front tire looked good but replaced it and all's well.

[balvenie]

My bike has never known those exact same road conditions but a high speed wobble was experienced on overtaking at round about 80mph a couple of years ago. Can't be exact because it scared the life out of me. Forks and steering heads bearings were good. Tyres were Bridgestone Battlax at 38/40 psi.
Always experienced wobbles in bends over bumps, right from new. Never got to try the overtaking thing again but putting 10% heavier springs in the forks worked wonders in bumpy twisties at speed. Rear shocks have been Ikon since early on when the originals began leaking. Tweaking rear preload and adjustments made no real difference.

[Sheepdog]

Check the runout of your front rim. Hamfisted tire changers can bend your rim out if they use long irons or too much force.

[balvenie]

Thanks Sheepdog

[Alchymyst]

Wow, that's a lot of variables to check.  Think I'll start with the easiest and remove the H+B panniers (small)  and windscreen and try same road.  Jim did mention that sometimes that combo can set up a harmonic with the wind.  will also inspect spokes, although I thoroughly cleaned and polished both wheels last wknd and did not notice any loose or bent.  If still happens, will look into tires. Am currently running Michelins with only ~ 600 miles on them, so hate to replace them if not needed. Must confess I don't know how to check runout.

To answer Normzone, it is a 99 V11 EV in red and cream.  Touring?  It does not say California, or Bassa. but seems quite similar to both.  Has floorboards, and H+B bags with red MG logos, and MG windscreen. 

Both times it happened I was passing, normally I just cruise at around 65-70 on the 2 lanes here in Iowa.  Will also try higher speed on other, smoother road.  Those "spines" are quite sharp on that stretch of road.
Thanks for all your input, you folks are great!

[redrider]

I had the same issue on the Café Sport at the same speed. Although the Michelin PR2 had only a few thou on it, I swapped it for Avon. Problem cured.

[chuck peterson]

No one has mentioned tire pressure...34-38 front, 38-42 rear as a starting range?

[LaMojo]

As Guzzidad suggested - check the steering damper.  It's a friction damper and probably worn out as it is nothing more than a cylinder packed with felt with a rod going through it.  You may find that the adjustment that puts a squeeze on the felt is all the way in and has no bearing on increased friction.   

Being new, it may not be the tires but I would suspend the front end and give the wheel a twirl to see if the wheel rim is straight and the tire is seated equally on both sides of the rim.  I would also inspect the rear tire for same.   If you can get help to hold the bike while on the center stand, spin the wheel with the engine and check for anything amiss.
 

[Zoom Zoom]

First, the steering damper: I personally never removed it but I know many that have or did. They experienced no trouble with it gone.

Second, You mentioned head bearings: If those are loose as you indicated, that could be causing you some grief.

Third, tires were mentioned: What tires are on the bike now. Not just brand but which specific model of tire? The bike came with Metzler ME55's on the front. I had that tire start doing that even though the tread was still  very good and pressure was correct. As soon as I replaced it, no more wobble.

My experience with my EV's are rock solid at any speed, bags, windshield, etc. No, this is not something you would have to live with. Something is causing this to happen.

John Henry

[Kev m]

Is the suspension stock (same length rear shocks as original, forks haven't been raised in the trees)?

My Jackal wound up with longer shocks which changed the steering head angle. Depending on whether or not there was a load in the topcase I could induce a front end wobble with throttle roll off, so I realized I was on the edge of a point of imbalance.

[DucatiSSsp]

Had a high speed wobble long time ago on a '81 suzuki 450e of mine.  Mechanic suggested I change the fork oil.....Bingo!! 

[Alchymyst]

Ran on some 4 lane yesterday at 80+ = no wobble.  Haven't been back to that other stretch with the bumps, but...

(redface) checked tire pressure, it is at 26 F and 28 R cold with Milton guage.  Sigh. will try inflating to recommended pressure above.

Damper does seem to do some damping, but all the "adjustment" is at the tight end.  Usually I leave it loose, unless oncoming trucks are creating too much turbulence.   Tightening it seems to help some in this instance.

Tires are Michelin PilotActiv 110/90/18 F and 140/80/17 R.

According to Jim, head bearings were about half turn loose, but have since been tightened.  Wobble occurred both before and after tightening head bearings.

Yes, bike usually seems rock solid, but do want to get this sorted.  I believe the PO put the Michelins on, but he did not ride the bike much as he did not care for the heel/toe shifter.  He only had it a year. 

Will also do wheel inspection as mentioned above.  Thanks for all your help!

[Wayne Orwig]

I have a 2004 EV. It does a high speed wobble if I use radial tires. I just stopped using radial tires. The couple of times that I had to install a radial on a long trip just to get home, I over inflate to about 45 PSI on the rear to stop the high speed wobble.

[Vagrant]

the EV doesn't like radials. check the wheel bearings too.
you should put a grease zerk in the steering head and pump it full of grease.

[Dilliw]

I have a 2004 EV. It does a high speed wobble if I use radial tires. I just stopped using radial tires. The couple of times that I had to install a radial on a long trip just to get home, I over inflate to about 45 PSI on the rear to stop the high speed wobble.

Pilot Activs are biased (same ones I use).

My '03 never had a wobble, but it would "wallow" on high speed corners sometime.  Increasing the compression adjustment cures it at a cost of some plushness. 

Can't hurt to try.

[Triple Jim]

you should put a grease zerk in the steering head and pump it full of grease.

I did that to my Kawasaki H2 in 1979.  The ball bearings are still like new, while it seems everyone else is changing them to tapered rollers because the stock ball bearings are terrible.   

[rodekyll]

Is it a wobble or a weave?  Wobble = feel in handlebar. weave = entire bike oscillates.

weave = bent frame.

[azguzzirep]

Not characteristic of any Guzzi , the Tonti framed California models are rock steady at 100 MPH . Sounds like a tire is out of whack .

 Dusty

My 98 EV is rock steady at 200 kph. = 125 mph  (indicated 😊)

Tom

[Alchymyst]

Rodekyll: definitely wobble, not weave.
 
Took bike out yesterday w/ correct tire pressure.  Couple of times passing cars small wobble started ( I am hyper-sensitive to it now) at just about 80 (indicated 85).  Immediately backed off throttle as the wobbling is kinda scary.

La Mojo: Checked rims for run out.  To my uneducated eye they look true; if there is any warp at all it is maybe 1mm at most. Tires seems to be seated quite equally all around.

Kev M: as far as I can tell suspension is all stock.  Am considering putting stiffer springs in forks to curtail front end dive (I am pretty heavy), and change fork oil (per DucatiSSsp). But before I start adding new variables I'd like to get this one sorted.

Dilliw: how do I increase compression?  Is that the same as pre-load? Are you talking front suspension or rear or both?  Sorry if this sounds dumb, but newb.

Thanks!

[Dean Rose]

Change the front tire. Don't use radial tires on Tonti frame bikes.

Dean

[Charles in Lake Charles]

Worm out rear shocks can also cause this problem.

[Alchymyst]

Solved! (I think)
So, rims true, beads good, head bearings good, steering damper good, air pressure good.
I spoke with Jim at Ned's Cycles again today.  He is a font of information.  He assured me it is in fact the windshield causing the problem.  Seems that shield (2 long vertical chrome round struts attaching to threaded factory mounts on the forks) was produced by MG and was the same as they put on the T3 bikes back in the '70s.  He told me that when the shields (nicknamed "barn doors") came into their shop for attaching to the EVs, they were placarded with a sticker "warning - do not operate at speeds in excess of 80mph" - if his memory serves.
Told me to remove shield and panniers and problem would go away.  Being the stubborn cuss that I am, (I LIKE the shield and panniers), I thought back to my rudimentary education on airfoil characteristics.  I reasoned that what I really needed was a "tail" to allow a more even air flow shape from top to bottom - ie, the bags are wide at the bottom of bike, but the shape on "top" truncates with the rider.  SO I mounted the Givi Blade top box and took her out on the highway.  Ran it up to 88mph.  No time travel.  And no wobble.
Even though I am not fond of the look of the top box, I don't have to look at it while I am riding.  Will keep monitoring, but seems to be working fine for now.  Thanks for all your help, and I did research on compression and rebound (forks have adjustment for both) and am gonna order the progressive fork kit from Hyperpro.

[craigclu]

Hopefully, it's sorted...  I'm the previous owner of this bike and just spotted this thread.  I never got comfortable with the foot boards and was always nervous to ride this in a "spirited" manner as I always felt that I was riding beyond my brake timing from too many years of pegs.  I had the new tires installed shortly before putting it away for winter storage and am certain that I hadn't ridden it over 80 mph after the new tires were mounted.  Because of that, the thread's mention of a bent rim by a tire mounting had me nervous but it was done by a shop with nice tire equipment and many years of bike service and I wouldn't have expected that to be the root of the issue.

When you look at the size and shape of the windshield, it's easy to imagine that the wrong circumstances could get some oscillation started at higher speeds.  The bike always felt stable and planted but was always ridden conservatively by me as I had too many moments of trying to stop by pressing on the foot boards!  I'm 65 and too many years of brain circuits being set in place made it a struggle to relax into a normal control flow.