B11 Closed loop trigger parameters

[tris]

Page 93 of Breva 1100 didacticiel  ( www.guzzitek.org/gb/ma_us_uk/1100/Breva1100_Didacticiel(GB).pdf ) says the following   

The parameter STATUS LAMBDA should indicate CLOSED
This condition can be verified at idle only when ALL following conditions are met

Air temperature above 18 deg C
Engine temperature above 18 deg C
Engine has operated for 2-3 minutes

That would appear to imply that my bike will normally run OPEN LOOP since it rarely gets to be above 18 deg Ambient here in the UK

Is that right or have MG had brain fade?

[pauldaytona]

That is right.  You can try it when cold enough, then hold the airtemp sensor between your fingers and it goes in closed loop. The germans have a problem with it in the yearly environment check, it gives to much co when check is done in winter or spring. 

[Kev m]

Also, isn't the term ambient temperature a little misleading.

I mean, it's not the temperature displayed on the dash gauge, but the temperature measured at the frame, under the tank, on top of the motor at the intake (i.e. the air intake temperature sensor).

I would think that being shrouded by the tank, right on top of the motor, right behind the oil cooler, that you would see a temperature slightly higher than true ambient. So if 64F (18C) could be seen even if the ambient was maybe in the high 50'sF (13-14C)?

But yeah that's still a surprise that it wouldn't go into closed loop on most winter days. Guess that combined with the denser/colder air better explains the swings in mileage I used to see in winter months that seemed higher than on other bikes/cars.

[tris]

Ambient was my word and I take your point re the intake being under the tank

I wonder what MG are trying to avoid by not letting the bike to run CLOSED at an air temp less than 18 deg C

PS - I think I can see a Beetle map coming into my life in future!!

[Kev m]

Ambient was my word and I take your point re the intake being under the tank

No, no, you're NOT wrong using the term. I think most manufacturers refer to it as a Intake Air Temperature sensor, and most descriptions of an IAT would probably use the term "ambient" as the air isn't being specifically cooled or heated for a purpose.

I'm just noting that the location of the Guzzi intakes and their IATs probably has an effect on that air temperature.

And I don't have a single guess as to why they chose that parameter. I would have expected closed loop operation would only depend on:

* Throttle position and engine rpm (steady not WOT or accelerating)
* Combustion chamber temperature (fully warmed)
* 02 sensor temperature (the signal is only reliable once it comes up to temperature)

Maybe combustion chamber temperatures are never really sufficient or proper if the IAT sensor isn't seeing at least 64F (18C) on the CARC bikes. This would go along with Pete's observations that the CARC bikes might indeed be over-cooled.