V11 LeMans oil pan (sump) on a 1998EV?

[Strom]

Hey guys...

I really hate to pull the oil pan every time I change the oil filter on my 1998 EV. Also I tend to not ride slowly and it gets hot where I tour the most so I guess an oil cooler would be welcome.

There is a V11 LeMans sump+ring+oil filter entrails on ebay and I wonder if it would fit a 1998EV. (also if the filter can be changed without removing the whole sump?)

Auction ends in about 10h, so any quick replies would be welcome.... pretty please... it is cheap (at the moment) and I cannot afford expensive. :)

[pauldaytona]

Should fit, Just look at what on the outside can be in it's way. exhaust pipes, sidestand? The frame isn't the problem.

[rocker59]

You'd be better off with an outsider oil filter kit.

The manhole cover can be pain on the V11 Sport/LeMans.

In over 40,000 miles, I never used the cover, but dropped the pan at each oil change.

[rodekyll]

Is this a "wide sump"?

[Strom]

This... why would the manhole cover be a problem?

[fotoguzzi]

the threads are fine and delicate, easy to cross thread.

[rocker59]

the threads are fine and delicate, easy to cross thread.

Yep.  Back in the day, there was lots of talk on v11lemans.com about the troubles/issues with frequent use of the manhole cover for oil changes.

Plus, if you're hip and using a hose clamp on the filter, the pan will have to be dropped at filter changes.

[rocker59]

Is this a "wide sump"?

"Broad Sump".  Yes.

[Strom]

Thanks for the input guys! :)

I guess I will rather use the sump extender with the outside filter... front or back, what do you recommend?
I guess the front is more prone to damage from... whatever... and the back might get in the way of the H-pipe?

[rodekyll]

Sorry to be butting in on the discussion, but there's a detail here I'm trying to understand. 

We're discussing putting an old school (normal, narrow . . .) and outsider on sump and an outside on a wide sump engine. 

The cautions from the commenters isn't that it doesn't bolt up or that it's bad for the engine, the cautions are that even with an access plate for the filter, you want to pull the sump to change oil. 

So I'm concluding that a standard sump -- from say an EV --  fits where a wide one did, and swapping is no danger to the engine.  Is that correct?

[rocker59]

Sorry to be butting in on the discussion, but there's a detail here I'm trying to understand. 

We're discussing putting an old school (normal, narrow . . .) and outsider on sump and an outside on a wide sump engine. 

The cautions from the commenters isn't that it doesn't bolt up or that it's bad for the engine, the cautions are that even with an access plate for the filter, you want to pull the sump to change oil. 

So I'm concluding that a standard sump -- from say an EV --  fits where a wide one did, and swapping is no danger to the engine.  Is that correct?

The way I understand it:

-The OP has a '98 EV.  No Outsider.

-The OP has seen a complete V11 broad sump for sale and would like to retrofit to his Cal EV to ease oil filter changes, and as a secondary benefit use the V11's oil cooler.

-The OP has been advised that it would be easier and more practical to add the Outsider to his stock EV.

-The OP has been advised that adding the broad sump can be done, but if he does so, don't use the manhole cover.  Drop the pan to change the filter.

-The OP has not been advised to try an Outsider on a broad sump.

[pete roper]

If it will fit, and I can't see why it shouldn't but I've never tried, the only real *advantage* I can see would be the ability to use an oil cooler. Since an oil cooler is completely un-necessary unless you habitually ride on the sunny side of Mercury I can't see any real benefit to the swap. And yes, you'd need the filter/OPRV/Thermostat mount as well.

Pete

[rodekyll]

But if I was adapting a wide sump engine to a Cali EV, being able to use the cali sump could head off installation clearance problems. 

So I'm trying to sort out if that's doable -- also if it's necessary, or does a wide sump fit in a cali?

The alternator isn't an issue, since I have one running via v-belt from the drive shaft.

If I can get through the compatibility issues there may be a 2006 Breva 1200 engine in the trike's future.  But if the front cover, sump, or flywheel won't fit, or if there are different header or intake sizes, then I can't do it.

[rocker59]

But if I was adapting a wide sump engine to a Cali EV, being able to use the cali sump could head off installation clearance problems. 

So I'm trying to sort out if that's doable -- also if it's necessary, or does a wide sump fit in a cali?

The alternator isn't an issue, since I have one running via v-belt from the drive shaft.

If I can get through the compatibility issues there may be a 2006 Breva 1200 engine in the trike's future.  But if the front cover, sump, or flywheel won't fit, or if there are different header or intake sizes, then I can't do it.

OK, now you're talking carrots to our apples and oranges.

Breva is a whole 'nother deal.

The Griso/Breva/Norge/Stelvio's sumps are different from the V11 broad sump we're discussing.

And that won't be your problem.  The high mounted alternator interfering with the top rail of the Tonti frame will be the issue to work through.

[rodekyll]

I'll throw the alternator away to make the space.  Don't need it.

But to get back to educating me -- you're saying the sumps interchange -- no issues? 

Does the wide sump fit in a tonti frame?

[radguzzi]

I guess I should let the OP know, or anyone else interested, I have a complete broad sump from a V11 For Sale...

PM for details if you have any interest in this one.

And just as an FYI, the covers can be troublesome however, if you can deal with the fact that the bottom of the pan and the recessed threads for the access cover are on two different angles, the threading of the door is not such a big ta-do, My Opinion Only. 

Best,
Rob

[rocker59]

I'll throw the alternator away to make the space.  Don't need it.

But to get back to educating me -- you're saying the sumps interchange -- no issues? 

Does the wide sump fit in a tonti frame?

People have put wide sump V11 Sport/LeMans engines into Tonti frames.  Todd@Guzzitech, for one.

The Breva engine is different from what the original topic of this thread is about.  I have not heard or seen anyone putting a Breva/Griso/Norge engine into a Tonti.

[pete roper]

To use a CARC bike engine you'd just need to swap the timing chest cover. Ground clearance might be a bit of an issue as the sump on the CARC engines is deeper. Depends how ply the Trike is?

Pete

[Tom]

The only hassle I have with dropping the pan is making sure I have a replacement gasket just in case.

[rodekyll]

To use a CARC bike engine you'd just need to swap the timing chest cover. Ground clearance might be a bit of an issue as the sump on the CARC engines is deeper. Depends how ply the Trike is?

Pete

Thanks, Pete.  The trike is at the same ground height as the 2-wheel version since I used the oem forks, steering head portion and lower rails (gotten from yourself, and a tip of my hat for that!).  So I think this might be a go.

Sorry for the deviation from the topic.  I'm ignorant enough to not know those engine differences, but curious enough to hijack the topic in order to find out.  Returning you to the topic now in 3.  . .2 . ..1 .. .

[pehayes]

The G & G (Switzerland) deep sump with recessed filter is what you want.  Not cheap, but a fine piece of kit.  Currently out of stock.

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4586

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Strom]

Thanks for all the replies guys... I have been away from this board for a while, but it is great to see you are not dead yet. ;)

So, I skipped on the wide sump thingie on ebay.. but I might be interested doing it later on, if I standardize my cali.
Your input is really very much appretiated :) Also the offer w/pics. :)

I love the looks of the deep sump with external filter, but yeah.. a tad more expensive than I would like, so I guess I will get an "outsider". The question still remains, the one where the filter is at the back or in the front?

How is the H pipe clearance with the filter at the back?

Rambling, ignore:
Also, I think I will find whoever designed the wiring on 98EV and talk a bit about his mother... but that is another topic... (headlight relay gets hot??? When I checked the wiring diagram I am confident everything runs on magic). Also white vaguelia rev counter dead (now I have two dead ones... the small winding around the magnet failed on both of them, pretty much the only thing that is not easily fixable).

[rodekyll]

You need to ask the mfgr about the H-pipe question.  They make different units for different h-pipe configurations.

The filter is in the rear, on the right.