Author Topic: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .  (Read 20521 times)

Offline Clancy

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2016, 11:14:11 PM »
I'm not a mechanic, but as a controls engineer I can tell you that if everything else isn't right mechanically then a good program won't do shit.
So check everything others have mentioned as well.
A beetle map WILL make the bike run better, however I've NEVER had any problems starting mine so I can't answer definitavely about that.
Good luck. Check in with us.
Cheers
Craig

2012 GRiSO (Factory rollered, Beetle mapped)

pete roper

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2016, 01:32:41 AM »
In my experience the running and starting issues are always the result of the mapping changes. Why? I'm not sure but my guess would probably be a mixture of their cheap, crude, control unit, (The GUI3 is used on a host of super-cheap scooters etc. they can be neither expensive or sophisticated.) and variances in its manufacture and operation. And the fact that the maps themselves seem crude and pretty poorly developed.

The fact that the only tuning option available from the factory is 'Replace the control unit' is extremely frustrating and if it wasn't for the Guzzidiag guys we'd still be at the mercy of that doctrine or the 'off the shelf' answers from some of the big aftermarket suppliers who, while they may make better stuff 'Off the shelf' for other brands offer only slightly less crude 'Sollutions' for Guzzis because the market is so tiny.

As has been the case since forever, when you're dealing with Guzzi you either put up with the foibles or you learn to 'Roll yer own'.

Pete

Offline kingoffleece

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2016, 03:55:51 AM »
I'll mention it one more time in the spirit of helping.  Call Jim at Hamlin Cycles in CT and ride your bike there for a full service.  It'll be perfect when it's done.  You'll also be right there to see and learn about your bike.  Easy ride: 390 to 17 to 17K to bridge in Newberg to 84 to exit 5 (RT 53 S) to the shop.  A nice 5 hour ride thru pleasant countryside.  Stop in Appalachian just our side of Binghamton at the BBQ place you'll see off of the 17 1 mile before the exit.  It's also where the Sunoco is.

Enjoy the nice day ride down and the ride back on your perfect V7 will be a great one.  There's a Days Inn a few miles from the shop for 73 bucks a night.  Great food and bar 2 minutes walk from the Inn as a bonus.

Seriously.  Get it fixed right.  My V7 runs as well as any vehicle of any sort I've ever owned.  Yours should too.
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robdrobd

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2016, 08:14:53 AM »
Can anyone give me a quick run down on what the new mapping will most likely do? I'm fairly certain my bike currently has the original factory map. I'm just curious as to what it tweaks to help performance, starting, idling, etc.

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2016, 01:31:47 PM »
12-14 V7 1TB 5 speed gearbox,  original map = 3523V702, updated map = 352BV738

The factory updated map helped w/cold starts, you could go off riding before 2min was up. Some say it helped in other areas also.
Never saw a mention on mileage of service & what was performed, or if it has ever been serviced. EDIT: just read serviced at 600mi, sorry.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2016, 02:36:46 PM by guzzisteve »
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Online Cam3512

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2016, 01:44:30 PM »
12-14 V7 1TB 5 speed gearbox,  original map = 3523V702, updated map = 352BV738

The factory updated map helped w/cold starts, you could go off riding before 2min was up. Some say it helped in other areas also.
Never saw a mention on mileage of service & what was performed, or if it has ever been serviced.

Mine (2104 Special) has the updated map.  Still has the cold start issue, but has really smoothed out the shifting and riding at low speed/RPMs.
Cam in NJ
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beetle

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2016, 01:55:40 PM »
My map will give you better cold start (30 second warm-up), smoother low-end riding and a linear power curve.

Offline rocker59

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2016, 01:56:41 PM »
Can anyone give me a quick run down on what the new mapping will most likely do? I'm fairly certain my bike currently has the original factory map. I'm just curious as to what it tweaks to help performance, starting, idling, etc.

for my 2014:

Better cold starts.
Better running upon cold start in cool weather.
Better idle.  Less hunting. 
Michael T.
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Online Kev m

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2016, 03:29:35 PM »
I lived with the original map for a couple of years and more than half of the 12.5k miles on my V7 right now.

The new map did VERY LITTLE (maybe even nothing).

Cold running is still a problem from the second it tries to enter closed loop for the first few minutes until the heads/combustion chambers start to come up to temperature.

As a matter of fact I thought of the OP today when I started the bike and realized I was running late for a business meeting.

I tried to pull away after only maybe 20 seconds and the bike stalled (predictably).

But then when I went to restart it, the first attempt failed (which almost NEVER happens on my bike). Then the second attempt failed too.

Third attempt (after cycling ignition and waiting a few seconds) let it start but it hunted more violently than ever before.

My SWAG is the failed starting attempts led to minor flooding, which made it hard to start, and once it did start gave the now warmed 02 sensors (thanks to the heaters) absolute fits as the ECM tried to start the feedback loop right away.

I still rode off after only a minute or so of warmup, sooner than I should have (see that being late thing) and it surged and bucked like it has never done before.

Minutes later it was absolutely fine as usual.

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robdrobd

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2016, 03:52:08 PM »
I lived with the original map for a couple of years and more than half of the 12.5k miles on my V7 right now.

The new map did VERY LITTLE (maybe even nothing).

Cold running is still a problem from the second it tries to enter closed loop for the first few minutes until the heads/combustion chambers start to come up to temperature.

As a matter of fact I thought of the OP today when I started the bike and realized I was running late for a business meeting.

I tried to pull away after only maybe 20 seconds and the bike stalled (predictably).

But then when I went to restart it, the first attempt failed (which almost NEVER happens on my bike). Then the second attempt failed too.

Third attempt (after cycling ignition and waiting a few seconds) let it start but it hunted more violently than ever before.

My SWAG is the failed starting attempts led to minor flooding, which made it hard to start, and once it did start gave the now warmed 02 sensors (thanks to the heaters) absolute fits as the ECM tried to start the feedback loop right away.

I still rode off after only a minute or so of warmup, sooner than I should have (see that being late thing) and it surged and bucked like it has never done before.

Minutes later it was absolutely fine as usual.

The end of your post sounds like my problem every day. As of its flooding out.

Online Kev m

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2016, 04:47:19 PM »
The end of your post sounds like my problem every day. As of its flooding out.

How rushed are you when you leave in the morning?

Do you:

1. Turn ignition key on.
2. Let fuel pump run/instrument cluster initialize
3. LEAVE THE THROTTLE ALONE.
4. Hit starter and continue to leave the throttle alone for a minute or so as it warms up?


That's my usual routine, an 99% of the time there's no problem, unless I start touching the throttle and try to put it in gear/pull away.

If you're doing all that and it seems like it is flooding I'd be very tempted to check the basics as I mentioned earlier (spark plug and wire condition, valve adjustment, maybe even throttle cable adjustment if it seems tight, the condition of the air filter etc.).

IF it's still not right - try a Beetle map.

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robdrobd

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2016, 05:17:52 PM »
How rushed are you when you leave in the morning?

Do you:

1. Turn ignition key on.
2. Let fuel pump run/instrument cluster initialize
3. LEAVE THE THROTTLE ALONE.
4. Hit starter and continue to leave the throttle alone for a minute or so as it warms up?


That's my usual routine, an 99% of the time there's no problem, unless I start touching the throttle and try to put it in gear/pull away.

If you're doing all that and it seems like it is flooding I'd be very tempted to check the basics as I mentioned earlier (spark plug and wire condition, valve adjustment, maybe even throttle cable adjustment if it seems tight, the condition of the air filter etc.).

IF it's still not right - try a Beetle map.

Turn key, wait for everything to "run the checks", don't touch the throttle, push the button, cranks strong, doesn't start, ending with a quick suction sound coming from airbox. Plugs are dry, new, and gapped. Have not checked valves.

Online Kev m

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2016, 05:36:24 PM »
Hmmm, and have you tried a cold start with the fuel cap removed from the tank to confirm there are no pressurization/vacuum problems?


After that check the valve lash, and meanwhile order those cables so you're ready for a Bettle map.

Maybe consider looking down the throttle body to see if oil has fouled anything in there.

Would love to know what the MAP sensor thinks about ambient pressure (in case it's fouled).
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Offline Tom H

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2016, 05:46:00 PM »
Just a thought.

As mentioned before in this thread, have you checked the air cleaner? Could it be soaked with oil? I don't know how hard it is to check, but it might be worth checking?

Good luck!!!!
Tom
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Online Kev m

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2016, 05:53:58 PM »
Just a thought.

As mentioned before in this thread, have you checked the air cleaner? Could it be soaked with oil? I don't know how hard it is to check, but it might be worth checking?

Good luck!!!!
Tom

Very easy to check and yes... I'm hoping it's been cleaned and checked by now!
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Offline malik

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2016, 05:55:22 PM »
Step by step
1. remove a couple of hundred ml of oil from the sump
2. replace the spark plugs with new ones
3. remove the breather hoses & clean them, inside & out & replace them.
4. remove the air filter.
5. clean the air box thoroughly - paper towels in all the nooks & crannies. Wipe again with a solvent on the towel.
6. replace the air filter with a new one.
7. test the spark on each side - the standard plug caps have been known to make bad connections on the plugs' posts - I've replaced my plugs & caps with ones that grip the thread.
8. try starting procedure again.

Keep an eye on more oil coming into the bottom of the airbox. and clean the bottom out every service/air filter change.
If you still have problems, it may be that oil from the airbox has coated the inside of the throttle body and the inlet manifold and is now gunked up. They can be accessed in situ from the top with clean rags & a light application of solvent, but it helps to know what the inside looks like. Try it - can't hurt & worked  on my V7 Special. BTW when I removed the twin throttle bodies on the V7C they were were black inside with oil & dust- over-filled the oiled filter I'd guess - I now use paper filters only - and the bike ran better afterwards.

Good luck
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Offline Clancy

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2016, 06:22:35 PM »
Can anyone give me a quick run down on what the new mapping will most likely do?

MY experience with a Beetle map:
- Smoother engine run at idle (Pete, Michael & I instantly noticed this the moment the bike was first started with the new map)
- Improvement at lower revs (in city traffic)
- Improvement at higher revs (when fanging it)
- Smooth acceleration, in any gear, all the way to 7k
- No notchy "happy" place in the rev range. Engine is happy to sit & cruise on any revs in any gear.
- Smooth roll on/off with the throttle (no statchyness)
- Improved start & go (but I still start it then put on my gloves & helmet. It's a habit, but also gives zero problems)
- Zero 'warm start & go' bogging down issues  :bow:
- No noticible loss in mileage

I love the Beetle map. It shits all over the factory map I had.
I wouldn't even mind a decal for the bike saying "BeetleMapped"  :evil:
Cheers
Craig

2012 GRiSO (Factory rollered, Beetle mapped)

robdrobd

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2016, 06:37:12 PM »
I decided to change oil and filter while it's up on the blocks before I put everything back together. Should I add the full 2 liters since the stick was reading 1/4 inch above? Also, since this bike isn't starting well is there an estimate of where the dips tick should read without the bike being run?

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2016, 06:44:20 PM »
No never put in the full capacity for a myriad of reasons.

Put in 1.5L, crank to fill filter, check and make sure oil is only about 1/2 way up range.
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Online Cam3512

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2016, 06:46:44 PM »
I decided to change oil and filter while it's up on the blocks before I put everything back together. Should I add the full 2 liters since the stick was reading 1/4 inch above? Also, since this bike isn't starting well is there an estimate of where the dips tick should read without the bike being run?

Do NOT add the two full liters.  Put in 1 1/2, then run it.  Let it settle then check the level.  Top it off until it's in the middle of the high/low on the stick.
Cam in NJ
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robdrobd

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2016, 06:52:17 PM »
Do NOT add the two full liters.  Put in 1 1/2, then run it.  Let it settle then check the level.  Top it off until it's in the middle of the high/low on the stick.

If the bike won't fire, is there a spot on the stick I should be at with the engine cold?

Online Cam3512

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #51 on: August 23, 2016, 07:00:22 PM »
If the bike won't fire, is there a spot on the stick I should be at with the engine cold?

Cranking it will fill the oil lines and filter, so half way should still be good.  I keep my level there, and I still wipe out the air box every once in a while.  But I rev the hell outta mine. 

Try some SeaFoam in the gas in case your injectors are clogged?
Cam in NJ
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robdrobd

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #52 on: August 23, 2016, 07:14:23 PM »
Cranking it will fill the oil lines and filter, so half way should still be good.  I keep my level there, and I still wipe out the air box every once in a while.  But I rev the hell outta mine. 

Try some SeaFoam in the gas in case your injectors are clogged?

I havent tried an additive yet. Also, will the GuzziDiag give readings if something is wrong or just remap?

Online Cam3512

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #53 on: August 23, 2016, 07:17:01 PM »
I havent tried an additive yet. Also, will the GuzziDiag give readings if something is wrong or just remap?

Don't know, haven't used GuzziDiag yet.
Cam in NJ
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robdrobd

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #54 on: August 23, 2016, 07:42:48 PM »
Here's an easy question amidst all the others. How do you guys get those darn hose clamps off!?!

Online Kev m

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #55 on: August 23, 2016, 07:49:24 PM »
GuzziDiag or any scan tool only tell you;

1. If there is a fault that the ECM recognizes because the value of the circuit is so far out of wack that it sets a code. And then there is normally a check engine light to have earned you that you need to check the code.

Or

2. Maybe you can catch an obvious sensor value that's just a bit out of range, like an ambient temperature rating 20°F higher than actual temp or something like that.

As for the hose clamps, bad news. They're "crimped" meaning they are use once, cut off (by sniping the crimp itself) and throw away.
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robdrobd

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #56 on: August 23, 2016, 07:55:14 PM »
GuzziDiag or any scan tool only tell you;

1. If there is a fault that the ECM recognizes because the value of the circuit is so far out of wack that it sets a code. And then there is normally a check engine light to have earned you that you need to check the code.

Or

2. Maybe you can catch an obvious sensor value that's just a bit out of range, like an ambient temperature rating 20�F higher than actual temp or something like that.

As for the hose clamps, bad news. They're "crimped" meaning they are use once, cut off (by sniping the crimp itself) and throw away.

After numerous starting attempts I do get a check engine light. How do I read the code it's producing?

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #57 on: August 23, 2016, 07:57:43 PM »
After numerous starting attempts I do get a check engine light. How do I read the code it's producing?

GuzziDiag will help you out there and that might give you a clue as to what is happening. But I assume it goes away shortly after startup, so it may not even be stored when it's not present, depends on the code and how Guzzi programmed the self-diagnosis memory functions.
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11 Duc M696

robdrobd

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #58 on: August 23, 2016, 08:38:30 PM »
GuzziDiag will help you out there and that might give you a clue as to what is happening. But I assume it goes away shortly after startup, so it may not even be stored when it's not present, depends on the code and how Guzzi programmed the self-diagnosis memory functions.

Yep,  once the bike fires it goes away and doesn't return.

Offline malik

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Re: What kind of Wizardry is this? V7 oil leak and running problems .
« Reply #59 on: August 24, 2016, 03:46:55 AM »
Here's an easy question amidst all the others. How do you guys get those darn hose clamps off!?!

Those wire clamps - best off (& back on) with big long nose pliers; still awkward though. It gets easier (but not easy) with practice.
2010 V7 Classic, 2014 V7 Special
1996 1100 Sport Carb (in NZ), 2004 V11 LeMans (in UK)
Carberry Enfield V-Twin, 2008 Royal Enfield Electra, 2006 RE Electra 535


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