v7 stock suspension is killing me....or is it? thoughts....

[jgrebe]

I've read MANY threads on this board and, despite my fear of looking stupid or beating a dead horse, I'm going to put this out there. 

I'm 5'2" on a good day, 31" inseam, 135 lbs.  I'm also fairly crippled, particularly in my lower back.  I did about 200 miles on Sunday, about 70 yesterday, and that dang bike is KILLING ME. 

First things first, I removed some of the compression from the springs, I think I went 3 turns down, barely noticed a difference.  I also had my husband help me measure the compression of me actually sitting on the bike, even after the three turns, I'm only compressing the springs about 1/2 inch.  I think I read somewhere it should be more like an inch, maybe?  I'm wondering what would happen if I turn those bad boys the whole way down, and if it works for me, cool, but am I going to do any damage?  The "reputable" dealership I bought this bike from said they would adjust the springs for me when I bought it (said they're set for 160 lb rider) and then never did it.

I know several folks recommend an aftermarket shock, but my budget isn't there right now, because I'm also contemplating a different seat....read on for that saga.....

So twice now I've gotten stuck with my bike and it's completely humiliating.  I'm on the balls of my feet on this thing and I can't duck walk unless I'm on total flat ground and even then, it's a challenge.  Most of the time I can comfortably push it forward and backward, but yesterday I was on a slight incline trying to push uphill (moving backward), and someone had to help me.  Talk about feeling like an idiot.  So I'm looking at the lowered gel seat Guzzi sells, running $205 at AF1 right now.  Thoughts on that anyone?   

I'm trying to make my bike as comfortable as possible and trying to avoid any further shame and embarrassment without spending hundreds of dollars.  I'd like to do as much as I can with what I have before I go buying things that ultimately may not make a huge difference to me.  But I don't want to buy shocks if the seat is the problem, and vice versa. 

Also I'm particularly interested in hearing from smaller folks around my height/weight if possible.  Not being discriminative, but a lot of the posts I've seen thus far are very helpful, but the guys posting weigh 80-100 lbs more than I do, so it's hard for me to discern if the same advice would apply for me. 

Dang, for a first-time post, this is rather long.   

[fotoguzzi]

get some boots with thick soles to give you more height.  maybe a local upholstery shop could shave down the foam in your seat before spending a lot on a new seat.

[jgrebe]

Boots, I've got the Icon Elsinore's.  Very thick soles. 

That's a good idea about the upholstery shop, but the seat is already too hard in my opinion, so I'd hate to take out more foam.  Although maybe they could take it out and replace it with something softer? 

I think you're on to something....

[pyoungbl]

With your weight it's no wonder the suspension is killing you.  I'm about 55 lbs heavier and had exactly the same issue.  First, try backing the preload all the way off....that is to say, loosen the shock collars until they are just barely putting pressure on the spring.  When you sit on the bike the suspension should compress about 25%.  Since the total travel on the rear is 100mm you should look for 25mm, about 1", of sag when you sit on the bike.  I'm assuming you know how to measure sag.  I find it easier to use the metric scale when doing this, it's more precise.  Even if you get the sag in the correct range I fear that the shocks will still be pretty stiff, mine were.  The OEM shocks cannot be rebuilt to change the dampening.  That's one reason to look for aftermarket shocks.  Then you get the spring that matches your weight as well as valving to suite both your weight and riding style.

As for the inseam, I have 32" inseam and am actually a bit cramped on the V7.  Double check your inseam.  My wife is your height and hers is 29".  You can gain some advantage by having the nose of your seat shaved on the sides.  Then, if you slide fwd on the seat your legs might easily reach the ground.  FWIW, I cannot paddle my Stelvio backwards uphill due to the seat height.  You are not the only one feeling the frustration.  I'm just very careful where I stop and don't mind getting off the bike when I have to push it.

[jgrebe]

With your weight it's no wonder the suspension is killing you.  I'm about 55 lbs heavier and had exactly the same issue.  First, try backing the preload all the way off....that is to say, loosen the shock collars until they are just barely putting pressure on the spring.  When you sit on the bike the suspension should compress about 25%.  Since the total travel on the rear is 100mm you should look for 25mm, about 1", of sag when you sit on the bike.  I'm assuming you know how to measure sag.  I find it easier to use the metric scale when doing this, it's more precise.  Even if you get the sag in the correct range I fear that the shocks will still be pretty stiff, mine were.  The OEM shocks cannot be rebuilt to change the dampening.  That's one reason to look for aftermarket shocks.  Then you get the spring that matches your weight as well as valving to suite both your weight and riding style.

As for the inseam, I have 32" inseam and am actually a bit cramped on the V7.  Double check your inseam.  My wife is your height and hers is 29".  You can gain some advantage by having the nose of your seat shaved on the sides.  Then, if you slide fwd on the seat your legs might easily reach the ground.  FWIW, I cannot paddle my Stelvio backwards uphill due to the seat height.  You are not the only one feeling the frustration.  I'm just very careful where I stop and don't mind getting off the bike when I have to push it.

Thank you so much.  You probably also made my husbands' day because he has been telling me to take all the preload out as well.   

I am going to try it this evening and maybe that will make it bearable.  I've only got 1600 miles on the bike so I don't want to buy another seat until I give this one a fair shot.  Maybe I should tie a couple 50lb bags of horse feed to it all winter and then that bad boy will break in?   

[swooshdave]

Why not go back to the dealer and ask them why they didn't lower it? They should be interested in helping as many customers as possible. It's not like they are busy selling bikes.

[thepittsburghguzzi]

I second the bit about shaving some of the seat away. If you know a skilled seamstress, or someone who knows what they're doing with seats and textiles, have them take an electric turkey carving knife, shave out a bunch of the foam on the saddle, and reupholster it. It made a huge difference for me, with my short legs and 5'6" build 

[jgrebe]

Why not go back to the dealer and ask them why they didn't lower it? They should be interested in helping as many customers as possible. It's not like they are busy selling bikes.

You would think that, right?  Well, not these folks.  I was actually told if I didn't want the bike they could sell it immediately so it was very "take it or leave it".  I was basically told they didn't need my business. 

Nonetheless,  I took it, and immediately found a great dealer to do my warranty service work.  These folks are really great people.  Their advice was to let the bike break in a bit, and when I go in for 4,000 mile service maybe go with different shocks and upgrade springs in the forks.  But to be honest if I decide to go that route, I'll do it myself. 

[tiger_one]

The correct springs for your weight is very important, I would see to that first.  The damping may very well need to be fixed also, but correct spring rate first and this will get to proper sag numbers (20% or so of travel) and also give you a lower seat height.

[tonUPRacer]

Also I'm particularly interested in hearing from smaller folks around my height/weight if possible.  Not being discriminative, but a lot of the posts I've seen thus far are very helpful, but the guys posting weigh 80-100 lbs more than I do, so it's hard for me to discern if the same advice would apply for me. 

Dang, for a first-time post, this is rather long.   

I'm 5' 4" 130 lbs 30" inseam. RacerV7 with BiTubo shocks. Same issues as you. Backing pre-load will help but then you'll be bottoming out at every bump and handling will suffer. I chose to order weight specific springs from Race Tech. I sent them my shocks and my weight and they sent me them back in about 2-3 weeks. Cost was about $200, much cheaper than 2 new shocks and it has made a world of difference. Unfortunately that is only 1 piece of the puzzle because the front needs attention as well. Again I went to Race Tech and ordered weight rated front springs and the Matris drop in pre-load adjustment kit. I now have a 100% better bike. Total cost was around $500-600.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I can suggest two upholstery shops in Hagerstown that can probably help with the seat. Warren at Hagerstown Auto Interiors http://hagerstownautointeriors.com/ cut down and reupholstered my Cagiva Elefant seat and the guys at Perfect Stitch Upholstery http://www.perfect-stitch.biz/ do excellent work as well. 

Can the front forks be raised up in the triples trees a bit as well as dialing out the rear shock preload? That might get it down to a manageable height without seat alteration. 

[jgrebe]

I can suggest two upholstery shops in Hagerstown that can probably help with the seat. Warren at Hagerstown Auto Interiors http://hagerstownautointeriors.com/ cut down and reupholstered my Cagiva Elefant seat and the guys at Perfect Stitch Upholstery http://www.perfect-stitch.biz/ do excellent work as well. 

Can the front forks be raised up in the triples trees a bit as well as dialing out the rear shock preload? That might get it down to a manageable height without seat alteration.

Okay Charlie this is kinda funny.  I had a feeling when we were chatting on Facebook yesterday you were "the guy" everyone has been telling me about.  I mentioned to a friend a while back that maybe next winter (once our new garage is built) I'd like to get an old V7 for a project, and I was told to see "the guy with all the cool old bikes somewhere down near Boonsboro" it was rumored this guy had Guzzis.  Then last night I told Matt we were officially invited to breakfast by a nice gentleman on the MGNOC board and he said, "Hey, maybe he's that guy".  And here we are!   

Anyhow, someone on here could answer better to the forks, but I'm sure I read somewhere you do have some room to move them.  One way to find out. 

And I'm definitely checking out your recommended upholsterers ASAP.  Thanks a bunch!

[pikipiki]

I'd second the comment about lowering the front by moving the forks up. stock there should be about 2mm fork tube pretruding. you can change that but not to much. Go to about 10mm? Also worth trying a lowered gel seat before you buy. try riding out to a dealer who has a bike in and sitting a stride that.

[kingoffleece]

The stock shocks are worthless.  Almost anything is better.  As mentioned the spring rate for your weight is way off.  No amount of adjustment will make it right.  maybe a bit "better" in the short term but as mentioned you'll most likely bottom out when the preload is all the way out (over G bumps).

The only true solution are shocks made to your spec.  You are well outside the "norm" as the V7 is set for 165lbs if I recall correct.  At any rate I don't know of any OEM that specs out weight at 130 or so.

Even a bottom line Hagon made for you will be better that what you have at under 300 bucks.

[sturgeon]

I'd second the comment about lowering the front by moving the forks up. stock there should be about 2mm fork tube pretruding. you can change that but not to much. Go to about 10mm? Also worth trying a lowered gel seat before you buy. try riding out to a dealer who has a bike in and sitting a stride that.

Even better, ask the dealer if you can temporarily borrow a lowered seat to put on YOUR bike, especially if you decide to raise the forks a bit. I can't imagine one saying no if your just gonna sit on it in the parking lot for a couple of minutes. Unless you're all covered in mud or grease 

[pyoungbl]

you'll most likely bottom out when the preload is all the way out (over G bumps).

Not so.  The spring will still have the same amount of resistance as it compresses all the way.  Backing off on preload merely reduces the initial resistance a bit.  In this case the rider probably won't be much better off with zero preload but it's a free path to take just to explore possibilities with minimal expense.

[stevet]

In regard to the ergonomics of the seat, the V7 seat is shaped for the lines of the bike, not for the person riding it.

First, left to right side, the seat has a convex shape, and that shape wants to drive itself like a wedge up into your pelvis, and second, because of this shape, it does not have the supportive width for your pelvis, and your lower back and butt take a beating because of this.

Motorcycle seats need to be flat to slightly concave under the butt, and at a minimum 13 to 14 inches wide, or wider.  You'll find the seat under your butt on the V7 is roughly 9 inches wide and convex, like straddling a tree log.  I had mine rebuilt by a local upholstery shop, making it flatter and wider.  The upholsterer managed to coax 13 inches of width out of the seat, about as much as the narrow seat pan would allow.  I think Corbin shows their V7 replacment seats (solo and 2-up) at 13 inches wide.  Wider would be better, in my opinion.

The mildly concave surface of my Sargent World Sport saddle on my FJR is right about 14 inches wide.  The darn-near bucket seat of my rebuilt FJR seat by Russell DayLong is a cozy and supportive 17 inches wide.  Good seating and good suspension are important to any motorcycle used for more than a 5 mile daily commute, and motorcycle manufacturers would be wise to start understanding this.

Steve.

[swooshdave]

You would think that, right?  Well, not these folks.  I was actually told if I didn't want the bike they could sell it immediately so it was very "take it or leave it".  I was basically told they didn't need my business. 

Nonetheless,  I took it, and immediately found a great dealer to do my warranty service work.  These folks are really great people.  Their advice was to let the bike break in a bit, and when I go in for 4,000 mile service maybe go with different shocks and upgrade springs in the forks.  But to be honest if I decide to go that route, I'll do it myself.

You may also want to look around for a bike that has already been lowered and a new owner is looking to return it to the normal hight. You may even be able to swap the parts straight across.

[kingoffleece]

I'm aware of that Paul.  I was trying to keep it on the simple side.  Interestingly enough, a few years aga I assisted in setting spring rates and internal specs for a major manufacturer for the Triumph Thunderbird 1600.  Sure enough, at min preload with certain spring rates I get the bike to blow thru all the way which would not happen at max settings.  As one might expect, those spring rates were not recommended for certain weight ranges.

The entire process is interrelated and I don't think I'd ever suggest Guzzi got it right on the V7.

[jgrebe]

Not so.  The spring will still have the same amount of resistance as it compresses all the way.  Backing off on preload merely reduces the initial resistance a bit.  In this case the rider probably won't be much better off with zero preload but it's a free path to take just to explore possibilities with minimal expense.

So that's what I did.  I didn't run it the whole way down, but close.  Dang thing rides like a Cadillac now, comparatively.  And now the front end feels God-awful.  That will be my Saturday project. 

And as for bottoming out on bumps, it most certainly did not, and the road I travel when I commute is really nasty, so that's where I went, hitting every bump I could find.  It's much better than it was, at least, it's tolerable.  I know it could be even better than that. 

But you guys have to remember, I'm totally new to bikes.  I thought my CB 350 was awesome when I finally got it on the road.    And compared to that, the V7 is like a luxury sedan to me!  LOL

I'll do some searching for a dealer with a lowered seat that I could sit in and see how that goes.  But I'm really thinking by fixing the suspension, getting new shocks over the winter, maybe upgrading the springs in the forks on top of adjusting them, I'll have something that rides so well I might not even need to mess with the seat. 

Thank you guys for all the help and suggestions.  This has been a learning experience.  I said I wanted to buy a brand new bike, thinking that I wouldn't have to screw with it and it would be perfect out of the box, yet here we are.  haha!

[chuck peterson]

Just saw an ad from Moto international....th ey have a kit to lower your bike two inches, $600...

[Kev m]

Thank you guys for all the help and suggestions.  This has been a learning experience.  I said I wanted to buy a brand new bike, thinking that I wouldn't have to screw with it and it would be perfect out of the box, yet here we are.  haha!

In my experience there's no such thing... I mean, sure once in a while someone lucks upon something that's a perfect fit, but very few bikes have adjustable ergos (some BMWs have used adjustable seats, windshields, grips etc. over the years, but not many).

So it's very rare that someone doesn't have to change something to make a bike fit them.

And I'm saying this as an average size guy who tends to fit pretty well on most bikes... but still feels the need to change them.

[OlderSlower]

+1 on dealing with RaceTech for finding comfortable ride and improved handling for your V7.  They are experts and will custom design suspension components for you.  It is expensive, but well worth it (IMHO).  Your bike will be transformed!  As far as the seat issue, I suggest that you call Russell Day Long seats.  They make great seats and are a wonderful company to deal with.  If they can't help you, I bet they can refer you to someone who can.  Getting the ergonomics right is essential and makes your riding experience safer and joyful. My .02

[Chuck in Indiana]

Just saw an ad from Moto international....th ey have a kit to lower your bike two inches, $600...

They've done quite a few of them, and know what they're doing.

[Kev m]

As far as the seat issue, I suggest that you call Russell Day Long seats.  They make great seats and are a wonderful company to deal with.

Does Russell Day Long ever do something that isn't much wider than stock? I'm under the impression the OP has a height/reach to the ground problem. Even if she lowers it an inch or so, a wider seat could take that all away.

[charlie b]

Russell Day Long seats usually are much wider in the rear and a narrow nose.  They instruct to slide forward on the seat at stops so you can reach the ground.  It can be a bit annoying in traffic, but, for longer distances they are hard to beat.

j, if you are having a breakfast with Charlie you are luckier than most.  He is a wealth of information and skills.

And many of us modify whatever bike we get to fit us.  I have always changed the seat on my bikes, either by redoing them myself or buying a custom seat.  My Honda NT700 I bought a Russell and it was a dream for longer distance riding.  I did the T5 seat myself and it is now comfortable to me over long distances as well.  I was also able to lower my seating position over an inch.

I also change handlebar height and position to suit me.  I have shorter legs and long arms so nothing fits me 'out of the box'.  I find bar position to be very important to how your back reacts to riding.  Contrary to some logic, you may need to lean more forward to make your back feel better on a ride, so try out several positions.

Last, you may also find that you may benefit from a small windscreen on the bike to relieve pressure on your chest.  Also very personal kind of thing.  I like large fairings/windscreens, some like none.

Good luck.

[sturgeon]

In regard to the ergonomics of the seat, the V7 seat is shaped for the lines of the bike, not for the person riding it.

First, left to right side, the seat has a convex shape, and that shape wants to drive itself like a wedge up into your pelvis, and second, because of this shape, it does not have the supportive width for your pelvis, and your lower back and butt take a beating because of this.

Exactly! I found a guy relatively local to me who rebuilt mine to suit my preferences. He removed the cover, carved out a bit of a dish and inserted some small 'wings' to widen it a bit where my butt sits. Then recovered it with some waterproof thin foam to replace the saran wrap that was on it, and reattached the original cover. It takes a close examination to see the changes, but they made a huge difference in comfort to me. He offered to narrow the nose too, but I have no issues with height when stopped, being used to dirt bikes with 35" or higher seats. The small amount he charged ($150 I think) was well worth it.

[jgrebe]

As far as the seat issue, I suggest that you call Russell Day Long seats.  They make great seats and are a wonderful company to deal with.  If they can't help you, I bet they can refer you to someone who can.  Getting the ergonomics right is essential and makes your riding experience safer and joyful. My .02

My husband is looking into a Day Long for his new V-Strom.  They sound fantastic, and I like the sound of their process, and have heard great things, but good God are they ugly looking.  =)  Comfort before beauty though, I suppose.  It's a compromise. 

[jgrebe]

And many of us modify whatever bike we get to fit us.  I have always changed the seat on my bikes, either by redoing them myself or buying a custom seat.  My Honda NT700 I bought a Russell and it was a dream for longer distance riding.  I did the T5 seat myself and it is now comfortable to me over long distances as well.  I was also able to lower my seating position over an inch.

I also change handlebar height and position to suit me.  I have shorter legs and long arms so nothing fits me 'out of the box'.  I find bar position to be very important to how your back reacts to riding.  Contrary to some logic, you may need to lean more forward to make your back feel better on a ride, so try out several positions.

Last, you may also find that you may benefit from a small windscreen on the bike to relieve pressure on your chest.  Also very personal kind of thing.  I like large fairings/windscreens, some like none.

Good luck.

You're right on all accounts.  I guess what I was trying to say is that in all my naiveté I assumed if I bought a new bike it would be so amazing and fit me perfectly and be the best thing since sliced bread.  I've since learned a motorcycle is not a horse (horse trainer, right here), and you can't just adapt your riding style to the bike and expect it to be A-Okay. 

I did rotate my handlebars a little more toward me and I've found that suits me better.  Oh, and the windscreen, I'm looking HARD at the Dart Marlin, holy cow that thing is good looking on a V7!  I'm generally okay on my bike as far as wind, my 35 mile commute is on local roads (I don't go over 55 usually), but when we go out on the weekends and hit higher speeds I feel like a fly stuck to a windshield wiper, and it actually makes my hands and wrists hurt because I'm hanging on for dear life at 65 mph. 

[TBShorty]

Old man with a bad back and 30" inseam.  I got the lower shocks from Moto International.  They lowered the rear 1 1/2" and they told me they are Sportster shocks so one might find a set on ebay for cheap.  I dropped the front 25mm and the ride height is good for me now.  I still ride around the bigger bumps but highway travel is pretty good with the dart fly screen.  The forks will get racetech springs this winter they are way to stiff even for my fat butt.  I had the seat foam shaved by a local shop but will be looking for a replacement soon.  Simple bikes like the V7 are easily modified to fit.