Question about the 2003 Hydro engines

[sdcr]

The  question is, were there any Hydro motors that were unaffected by the Recall?

In other words, are some of the hydro motors OK, without the fix?

Inquiring minds...

[Orange Guzzi]

Mine.  I bought my bike from the original owner and he said there was no recall work done on it.  He may be wrong, I may be wrong.  I have never inspected the valve adjusting screws to verify.  Has 24,000 miles.  Recently started making a funny noise that turned out to be a very lose spark plug. 

The lower triple tree is a recall also. 

[radguzzi]

Yeah, somewhere back in the archives there is a VIN list I believe.  Most dealers can tell you by VIN whether the work was accomplished as well... although they may not want to venture back into that dark history.

Best,
Rob

[bmc5733946]

Do not, repeat, do not rely on information from Guzzi's vin number system. I personally have done two recalls on engines that Guzzi said had already been done and have reliable information on others that were not done but listed as done as well.

Brian

[Chuck in Indiana]

Do not, repeat, do not rely on information from Guzzi's vin number system. I personally have done two recalls on engines that Guzzi said had already been done and have reliable information on others that were not done but listed as done as well.

Brian

True. Many "dealers" at the time just took the money and didn't do the work. A sad state of affairs, but it is what it is.

[bmc5733946]

Chuck, I was avoiding making that statement but it seems to be the case based on the information I received years ago. The lackadaisical and ineffectual data collection by Guzzi was exacerbated by their refusal to pay warranty claims with other than parts credit vouchers causing many dealers to falsify records just to get enough other parts to support the brand. Sadly these and several other issues caused many dealers to quit the brand.

Brian

[sdcr]

the bike that I'm asking about is on E Bay, it's a 2003. Another bidder asked the following question, and the sellers answer does not seem clear as to whether the recall was done. the seller does not list the bikes VIN.

"Q:    Hi, Nice ev, Does this bike have hydraulic lifters? If so was the recall on the motor performed? I believe it was a switch to solid lifters and a new cam. Thanks, Tom   Oct-17-16

A:    It has hydraulic lifters. No open recalls. "

 

[Dilliw]

If I recall correctly, there were 3 recalls.  None of them involved switching to solid lifters. 

A while back a fellow was here looking for the parts kit to do the recall himself. He said they were quoting well over $1000 for the kit now, as they were becoming unobtainable.  He found one here.  Not sure the next guy will be that lucky.

Then black '03 (EV Touring I) generally didn't come with the heated grips or the 12v outlet. 
There's no reason to believe that the mileage is correct since the ITI ODOs will almost all fail in the 8k to 12k range.
Wayne can tell you all about that oil leak :).  That said I rode mine for about 40k leaving a puddle as I went.
I"m not sure those are the Competizione version he describes.  You should be able to see a little red at the exit.  The stock exhaust says LaFranconi on them as well.
Interesting choice in rotors.

As to the lifters, my bike had over 30k on it before it received the kit (there was about a one year wait on them in the U.S.).  It showed no signs of problems when it was fixed but others weren't so lucky.  Not sure I'd take the chance now since the kits are now hard to come by.

[radguzzi]

Chuck, I was avoiding making that statement but it seems to be the case based on the information I received years ago. The lackadaisical and ineffectual data collection by Guzzi was exacerbated by their refusal to pay warranty claims with other than parts credit vouchers causing many dealers to falsify records just to get enough other parts to support the brand. Sadly these and several other issues caused many dealers to quit the brand.

Brian

Wow, well I was offering info based on my '04 having been taken care of by the dealer that I purchased it from new... they acquired a kit, called me to bring the EV to them and replaced the required bits.  I did not have any insider info as you guys do.

Good luck in the research sdcr. 

Best,
Rob

[bmc5733946]

Rob, I worked for Larry Klein at GT MOTORS in Lansing, MI for several years including those years of the hydraulic lifter debacle. It was difficult to watch this great marque take such a heavy hit and to know that the manufacturer / importer took it so casually that they couldn't even keep track of which bikes had been repaired and which still needed repair and then shafted the dealers on the ones they did repair.

Brian

[Tom H]

When I ran the VIN through Guzzi for "campaign's" done. Only my triple tree showed up.

When I pulled the valve covers....at least the valves and rockers were done......don't know if the cam or anything else was done. Can find a record.

JMHO, if you can have a sorted out hydo motor, it's a very nice motor!! May not be the best for a racer???, but fine for eating up the miles on the highway.

Tom

[Wayne Orwig]

The  question is, were there any Hydro motors that were unaffected by the Recall?
In other words, are some of the hydro motors OK, without the fix?

NO!

Well, not exactly. ALL of them should have gotten the fix.
The issue was improper valve spring pressure. If you were unlucky enough to have one that had a bit too much spring pressure, it would take out the tappet. You could replace everything, and the same tappet would die. Over and over. The fix was to replace and reshim the springs.
So, if you had one that did not fail, it likely never would. But they were ALL supposed to get the update.

[bmc5733946]

The key component of the last recall was as Wayne said lighter valve springs. If I recall correctly they were the same springs used before the hydraulic lifters. The lighter spring kit also included aluminum valve spring retainers, shims, followers, hydraulic lifters, and the rocker arms with adjusters that had the breakaway top. The aluminum retainers make it very easy to spot the ones that have been done once the valve covers are removed. The issue that is most alarming is that some got so worn before the correction took place that the metal worn off the camshaft and lifters went through the oiling system wreaking havoc everywhere. The piston used had a Teflon or some such coating that was soft enough that the metal particles were imbedded in the coating, crankshafts were also ruined and certainly oil pumps as well.  Anyone that owns one of these bikes and doesn't know for sure really should pull the valve covers and post a pic here and wait for the peanut gallery to chime in.

To tell the truth I wish I didn't know all this and had never seen it, makes me sad.

Brian

[DARKHORSE]

Sorry if I mislead anyone on asking that question about the 03 EV on e-bay.  I had thought that the lifters in the recall kit were solids. Makes sense now about the breakaway adjusters for the hydraulic lifters, set,em and forget em. The sad thing is that its a really nice bike but  I guess the 03s and 04s are years to avoid.

[bmc5733946]

I guess you could say that. I prefer to think that one that had a properly done last series recall before major damage occurred is a wonderful bike with the most advanced engine built to that date. They run very sweetly, pull from lower RPMs than solid lifter bikes, pull harder, and I think if you got one on a dyno you'd find that they make a few more HP and TQ. It really is a shame they screwed it up so badly on their first attempt and then didn't follow it up with one that worked from the factory. I was so impressed on my first ride of one I was sure they would sell all they could make, then the problems came, first the lifters then the single plate clutch all at once, what a shame. Felt like they broke a favorite toy.

Brian

[bmc5733946]

Yes, as did the second kit. Sorry I omitted that essential part / fact.

Brian

[Chuck in Indiana]

I was so impressed on my first ride of one I was sure they would sell all they could make, then the problems came, first the lifters then the single plate clutch all at once, what a shame. Felt like they broke a favorite toy.

I was hanging out at Mark's (MGClassics) when a couple came in asking about a hydro that he'd just taken in on trade. It looked like new. He just told them, "Sorry.. I can't sell that one.."
It had the trifecta. Hydraulic lifters without the upgrade, single plate clutch, and cracked triple. 

[Sasquatch Jim]

  Mine really sucked, as did the dealers help for the problem.

[dguzzi]

Brian, I would say that you likely did the work on the bike I have and its working just fine.  I even bought the recall kit "just in case". I'm real happy with the way the EVT runs!

[bmc5733946]

dguzzi, if it came out of GT Motors either dblue or I did the work.

 It appears I may have caused some to think that I was offended to be corrected about the inclusion of the camshaft in the final kit, for the record I was not, and hope I didn't offend anyone either with my response. My memory is not what it once was and not listing the camshaft in the list of parts was clearly an oversight on my part.

I believe in the marque and only want to share what limited knowledge I may have about specific things. Shared knowledge here and elsewhere is, in my mind, essential to enjoyment of this wonderful marque.

Brian

[Chuck in Indiana]

Shared knowledge here and elsewhere is, in my mind, essential to enjoyment of this wonderful marque.

Absolutely.

[sdcr]

Thanks to all who replied with good info. personally, I am going to pass on this one.

  I have a line on a 2001 EV, but have not been able to check out the bike yet. 

[Dilliw]

Yes, as did the second kit. Sorry I omitted that essential part / fact.

Brian

So I've always wondered about this.  The kit on EBay right now has a part number of K000030498720.  It has a new cam, the shiny hats, new springs, etc. but the rocker arms shown do not have the breakoff tabs.  After 80k miles this year I decided to look under my covers and that's how my bike looks without the breakoff tabs.  My kit was installed in shipped and installed in March 2006.  Is this the first kit or the second?

My bike:

[Orange Guzzi]

Sorry if I mislead anyone on asking that question about the 03 EV on e-bay.  I had thought that the lifters in the recall kit were solids. Makes sense now about the breakaway adjusters for the hydraulic lifters, set,em and forget em. The sad thing is that its a really nice bike but  I guess the 03s and 04s are years to avoid.

The best running engine made by Moto Guzzi in my opinion.  Not to be avoided. Once fixed, you will have a very nice, quite bike with more torque due to the came profile. 

[DARKHORSE]

Well thanks to all for the EV education, its alot clearer now as to what was needed for the fix. The wife and I are looking for a comfortable Guzzi to go to rallies on. I have an 04 v-11 sport that I like but she doesnt. Half the fun is in the hunt so at least I am not without a bike to ride while I am looking.  great job guys.

[bmc5733946]

Dilliw, Looks to me like you have some hybrid kit, you definitely have the right valve retainers. The rocker arms look like the originals that came with the bike. Regardless, if the bike runs smoothly and doesn't make any top end noise, I would not be concerned. I can't imagine anyone not doing the whole kit but who knows what transpired at the time, if still available I would ask the installer. For anyone truly concerned about when, in the cycle of damage, theirs was done simply pulling a rod bearing cap will give good information.  If there are bits of metal embedded in the bearing material it was too late, if not you're good. If you've put some 1000s of miles on it and it hasn't started making horrible noise it must be ok.

Brian

[Wayne Orwig]

So I've always wondered about this.  The kit on EBay right now has a part number of K000030498720.  It has a new cam, the shiny hats, new springs, etc. but the rocker arms shown do not have the breakoff tabs.  After 80k miles this year I decided to look under my covers and that's how my bike looks without the breakoff tabs.  My kit was installed in shipped and installed in March 2006.  Is this the first kit or the second?

My bike:

We talked about this before I think.
Looks like a partial kit was installed, for who knows what reason. The main thing is that the springs were touched, so hopefully they were done correctly.

Hey, it isn't puking oil now, right?

[Dilliw]

We talked about this before I think.
Looks like a partial kit was installed, for who knows what reason. The main thing is that the springs were touched, so hopefully they were done correctly.

Hey, it isn't puking oil now, right?

But look at the kit on Ebay.  Same rockers:

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/390907348459

[Tom H]

The condition states that it's used, but the picture section does not mention that it's used. Which is it? Maybe that's part of why it is not looking right??

Tom