Getting rid of tubes

[Sheepdog]

Remove the source of the puncture, remove the valve core, squirt in some Slime sealant, replace the valve core, air up the tire, spin the wheel to distribute the sealant, and Bob's your uncle. That's not so tough...and you don't upset the wheel balance in the bargain.

[Ncdan]

Update.

After a little research I have found a company who specializes in the process of sealing wire motorcycle wheels to be ran tubless. Their process in liver their secrets formula is guaranteed not to harden , rack ,or ever allow air to escape the wire wheel. The costs is 59.00 per wheel which includes a new air valve. Here is the company's email add.
http://www.wheel-works.com/

[Ncdan]

    I ran my 04 Triumph Tiger rims tubeless. I just used Permatex high temp silicone, the dark red stuff. No problems in over 50,000 miles. On the other hand, you will have to change your own tires from then on. No shop will accept liability. Finally sold the bike with 111,000 miles.

Buzz, did you just dab some on each head or coat the entire center of the wheel and did it even seep a little air or no more than any other tubless wheel would normally lose?

[Triple Jim]

And do you cover the valve with the tape on the inside, how will you then inflate the tyre? I could understand that covering the valve then poking a SMALL hole over the air inlet will allow for inflation, but would that not then allow high pressure air to leak in under the tape, and start to creep around the nipples to escape to the low pressure air outside?

If I were going to try the tape, I'd put a large hole at the valve so air can easily pass and not get between the tape and rim. 

Woody's Wheelworks also converts rims to tubeless.  I don't know what rules or restrictions they may have, if any.

[wirespokes]

Here's the big question for you guys adamant about running tubeless ONLY on tubeless rims:

What failure worries you concerning running a tubeless tire, tubeless, on a tube type rim?

Triple Jim said: "I still don't quite understand why the beads aren't needed with tube type tires."

I'm with you there! Why don't all rims have the safety bead???

[Huzo]

   Huzo, you are overthinking a simple solution. Clean your rim really well and use high temp RTV. A nice bead around each spoke nipple. Simple as that. No need to move the schroeder valve. No tape required.

Thanks Guzz but I did mine before I shipped it to Europe and it never leaks AT ALL. But the issue was and still is, what happens when I turn the nipples to adjust or replace a spoke? If I break a spoke overseas, I want to be able to unwind the nipple and replace the spoke. So you'd think that a sealing tape is required over the spoke heads to dodge the problem of "breaking" the silicone seal. My spokes did not leak even without sealant 'cos when I bored the rims I used o rings on the nipples. So... again, what do you do about the valve? Sealing the spoke heads is easy.

[Huzo]

If I were going to try the tape, I'd put a large hole at the valve so air can easily pass and not get between the tape and rim. 

Woody's Wheelworks also converts rims to tubeless.  I don't know what rules or restrictions they may have, if any.

That won't stop the air from trying to escape under the tape to get out. Am I imagining this problem?

[SeanF]

That won't stop the air from trying to escape under the tape to get out. Am I imagining this problem?

I used this for the valve when I sealed the rear rim of my 2014 v7 Special:


For the spoke nipples, I used Goop, allowing it to dry fully between applications (I think 3 in total).

Woody's laced my front hub to a 19" Excel rim, and also converted it to tubeless.

A 2.5" x 19" front & 3.5" x 17" rear gives lots of options for tires, especially in dual-sporty types, which I prefer anyway.

[Triple Jim]

That won't stop the air from trying to escape under the tape to get out. Am I imagining this problem?

My assumption is that the tape will stick around the area near the valve.  If air tries to escape at a nipple, the pressure between the tape and rim in that area will drop, and the pressurized air on the other side of the tape will push it against the rim.  Of course you'll use a valve stem that's sealed to the rim, so air won't be able to escape there either.

[redrider]

Here's the big question for you guys adamant about running tubeless ONLY on tubeless rims:

What failure worries you concerning running a tubeless tire, tubeless, on a tube type rim?

Triple Jim said: "I still don't quite understand why the beads aren't needed with tube type tires."

I'm with you there! Why don't all rims have the safety bead???

If running a tubeless tire on a tube rim, fit a tube. My concerns are:
Sealant failure due to flexion of the spoke/nipple to rim area
No rim lock. My Norton uses rim locks to secure the rear tire. Not uncommon to have the tire slip under acceleration which takes the tube with it leaving the stem behind.

[Kiwi_Roy]

If running a tubeless tire on a tube rim, fit a tube. My concerns are:
Sealant failure due to flexion of the spoke/nipple to rim area
No rim lock. My Norton uses rim locks to secure the rear tire. Not uncommon to have the tire slip under acceleration which takes the tube with it leaving the stem behind.

Another argument for going tubeless, no rim locks, the tire could creep without tearing the stem out although
I suspect there is less likelihood of the rim turning inside the tire with the seal right at the interface of metal and rubber rather than just a mechanical pressure tube against tire.

Anyway, I'll leave it there, no ones been able to dissuade me from my crazy path LOL

[Guzzidad]

        I ran my 04 Triumph Tiger rims tubeless. I just used Permatex high temp silicone, the dark red stuff. No problems in over 50,000 miles. On the other hand, you will have to change your own tires from then on. No shop will accept liability. Finally sold the bike with 111,000 miles.

Buzz, did you just dab some on each head or coat the entire center of the wheel and did it even seep a little air or no more than any other tubless wheel would normally lose?


      I just covered each head about 1/8" thick, let it cure a couple of days, and I never lost any air pressure. In the event you would have to adjust spoke tension, which I never did, you would have to reseal that nipple.

[SeanF]

     Buzz, did you just dab some on each head or coat the entire center of the wheel and did it even seep a little air or no more than any other tubless wheel would normally lose?


     

I know it wasn't directed at me...but I sealed each spoke individually. I checked for leaks by mounting & inflating the tire, then submersing it in water. I had a couple of tiny leaks on the first go, but since then (~5 months) it's been fine.

 

[Huzo]

If air tries to escape at a nipple, the pressure between the tape and rim in that area will drop, and the pressurized air on the other side of the tape will push it against the rim. 

I don't think that's correct Jim, because if high pressure air starts to work at the adhesive bond it would be like the air is trying to "chisel" away at the point between the inside of the high pressure cavity and the ambient air pressure outside, but I don't have any more knowledge than you or anyone else does so I won't dispute it or we know what will start. I think that the valve area is the spot where the anomaly will be, like I said, every man and his dog can seal spoke heads with goop, but you are stuffed if you manipulate the nipples and disturb the bond.  You'll have to repeat the process if you're not running a sealing tape. I'm suggesting that the valve needs to be shifted to a "clean" portion of the rim away from the tape, every other argument has been made a dozen times, you have to imagine what happens if you see a broken spoke and you are at Nordkapp and you need to replace it, that's why I maintain that I'm not "over thinking it". I can't remember who said that, but I hope I'm not...BTW, I did mine ages ago and that was the topic of my first post,"Wire Wheel Norge", and it's been perfect, but then again, I don't YET have a sealing tape and haven't needed one because I haven't turned the nipples but I'll have them done before I ship the bike o/s for 2017.

[jacksonracingcomau]

Here's the big question for you guys adamant about running tubeless ONLY on tubeless rims:

What failure worries you concerning running a tubeless tire, tubeless, on a tube type rim?

Triple Jim said: "I still don't quite understand why the beads aren't needed with tube type tires."

I'm with you there! Why don't all rims have the safety bead???

And therein is the whole issue
with or without a tube it is the safety bead that aims to stop bead breaking in event of a flat, but IMHE modern tyres do not break bead easily even on old borranis.
This is , I think, the misconception that tubeless is safer.
No, it is the "safety bead", clue might be in the name, will be just as "safe" with tube fitted, as some of us have done when tyre is damaged

So, anybody really concerned, fit rims with safety beads, but if weight of tube is the issue, tape & goo as those on here.
Interesting Euro 4 mandates ABS but not safety rims, guess they think bead breaking in case of flat not that much of a worry, me too

[Rick4003]

Not to add to any of the should or should not points, I bought a kit from a Japanese company that has made a range of rim seal tapes. Here you will get a number of small round stickers to put over your nipples, then you cover the "dip" of the rim with two layers of their special tape.

They say that it has been used extensively in race situations and they have never experienced a tyre bead come loose even with no safety bead on the rim.

Here is their comments on WM vs MT rim types (no safety bead vs with safety bead.)
http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~outex/tubelesskitWMMT.htm

Here is the main page of the kit.
http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~outex/tubelesskitenglishlist.htm

I have not installed it yet but plan too when I will change tires next time. It is quite a lot more expensive than the 3M tape, but I like that it is a kit that the company has used extensively in racing and they haven't had any problems. So I'm willing to try it out.

-Ulrik

[jacksonracingcomau]

Here is their comments on WM vs MT rim types (no safety bead vs with safety bead.)
http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~outex/tubelesskitWMMT.htm



-Ulrik

Due to the above facts, if you maintain regulation air pressure, we think it is safe to say that there will be no difference between WM and MT types as well as no fear of bead drop.

The If is the bit that matters, not whether they think it's safe to say

But we're still waiting on anyone with WM rims and modern tyres to tell us they have broken bead (bead drop in Japanese translation) in puncture scenario

Or anyone to collaborate this
With tubed tires, there are places where the bead part of the tire and the bead part of the rim do not adhere

Every tyre I've changed since they were all marked tubeless has needed a bead breaker to remove tyre, the tyre / rim seal does not know or care if a tube is present, the air pressure causing "adherence" is the same, as is the pop when tyre bead kisses rim properly.

As for difference in deflation speed, anyone with a nail gun and worn out tubeless tyre ? Find someone else with worn out tubed tyre.
Shoot a nail in each, time the difference in deflation , you'll need a good finger on stopwatch.

[Karl Von]

Saw this kit on ebay.  I was thinking about it for my quota



 http://www.ebay.com/itm/301501968212?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[ratguzzi]

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=86599.0

I did my '14 V7 using marine sealant. Months ago and the tires have not lost any measurable air.
My main reason is when you get a nail in the tire, tubeless deflates much much slower than a tubed tire. And I rarely have had a flat but sometimes I end up in strange places miles from any cell reception.
Better than doing this on the side of the road............
JB

[Ncdan]

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=86599.0

I did my '14 V7 using marine sealant. Months ago and the tires have not lost any measurable air.
My main reason is when you get a nail in the tire, tubeless deflates much much slower than a tubed tire. And I rarely have had a flat but sometimes I end up in strange places miles from any cell reception.
Better than doing this on the side of the road............
JB



Now that's the bottom line:)

[Rick4003]

Saw this kit on ebay.  I was thinking about it for my quota



 http://www.ebay.com/itm/301501968212?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

That's the kit I bought. But as I haven't mounted it yet I can't give you any advise to buy or not to buy.


As Jacksonracing mentions wouldn't it be the tube tire that would need the safety bead more than the tubeless in a puncture situation. A tubeless tire sticks must tighter to the rim than a tube tire does in my experience. In the event of a puncture the tube would not be able to keep the pressure on the tire beads and therefore would not help the tire stay in place? If so the tube tire is no safer than the tubeless. Am I completely wrong about this?

-Ulrik

[Triple Jim]

I have a feeling that the safety bead feature came along around the same time as tubeless tires became popular on motorcycles, and it was mistakenly thought that the two were connected.  I thought the two were related because I read it on the net, not because of anything I heard back around 1980 when I got my first pair of rims that had the beads.  Darn old Internet.

[wirespokes]

Good point, Jim!

Why don't ALL new rims have safety beads????

[Kiwi_Roy]

JB, I need to know, how did you get the rat-bike so dirty?