2002 California Stone, first Guzzi having some issues

[Ryeguy74]

Hey Guys,

I ended up acquiring a 2002 California stone last at the end of last year, about 37k miles on it, it starts but needs to choke to be held the whole time to get it going, once let off it dies If the throttle is pulled it also dies.  Im thinking it could be the TPS on it but Im not 100% sure as far as if it is or not, I haven't actually looked into it yet as I got it end of the season but while looking up how to mess with the TPS I had a few questions

1st) does the TPS actually have to be replaced? I saw it can be substituted with a specific harley sportster part that is nearly identical if so but alot of things pointed to this needing to be fidgeted with so I wanted to make sure if I need to buy a new part or not, what would be some indicators that the part is shot and I need a new one?

2nd) Do I need VDST scan tool in order to do this? I found some guides online but I felt they were not very clear on if just a voltmeter will do or if I will actually have to change/program something in the bike itself.

3rd) it seems like a lot of fidgeting with this to make it right, anyone have any advice/pictures/videos on how to do this? I have some motorcycle work under my belt but not a ton, most of the others I just watched videos on how to do them, Shoulda done more research as obviously the Guzzis dont have a ton of info out there as others, but I fell in love with this and really want to start her up for the spring.

All that being said anyone have any helpful hints they could offer? Does the issue sound like it would be TPS Related or am I in the wrong ballpark completely?

Thanks Guys!

[Orange Guzzi]

You are in for a lot of different advise and opinions.  Welcome to the Board.  Don't be scared.  It is really not a mystery.  Easier than adjusting and re-jetting carbs.  Get a good manual, Guzziology and Greg Bender will get you where you what to go. 

[fotoguzzi]

before you mess with the TPS do a valve adjustment and Throttle body sync. set air bleed screws about 1.5 - 2 turns out..new plugs might be a good idea too.
this not perfect but gives an idea how the TB's work..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVTiUqw8hew

[Kev m]

Hey and welcome to the forum.

Before you go down the rabbit hole of assuming its the TPS, has it been or have you serviced it.

Just the basics, fuel is fresh, valves adjusted, spark plugs in good condition, hoses and throttle body/manifold seals checked to make sure there are no vacuum leaks etc.

Once you get to that point and you still have problems, then you might check the TPS and the throttle body balance.

It can be done with a voltmeter or with a scan tool. Guzzidiag wasn't around when I had my 00 Jackal so I had a VDST, but I'm assuming Guzzidiag can probably be used on those ECMs too. If so that's the quickest and easiest way. You plug it in and read the throttle position. If it's way out of wack you can loosen the screw and adjust.

I'll say that when my 00 Jackal reached 35k miles or so it was stumbling a little at idle I was ready to do a full throttle body balance and adjust the TPS but discovered I literally only needed the slightest tweak of the idle stop screw.

BTW, the "choke" isn't a choke per se, but a fast idle lever that simply hold the throttle open a little. FWIW my Jackal always needed that lever pulled for cold starts or I manually accomplished the same for hot starts by holding the throttle grip open just a hair while cranking.

If it's much more stubborn than that, then sure, start with a tune-up.

Oh, and it's not a Sportster TPS that would be applicable, but an older EVO Big Twin TPS (like for my old RK) since they used the same webber-marelli EFI system.

[Kev m]

Get a good manual, Guzziology and Greg Bender will get you where you what to go.

REALLY? I've had that book on my shelf for a decade now and never found it a useful service manual, not for late-model stuff. If anything it's more a mechanical history book. <shrugs>

[Kev m]

before you mess with the TPS do a valve adjustment and Throttle body sync. new plugs might be a good idea too.

IIRC a throttle body sync includes messing with the TPS, because if you change the linkage positions you'll have to reset the TPS for idle.

[fotoguzzi]

IIRC a throttle body sync includes messing with the TPS, because if you change the linkage positions you'll have to reset the TPS for idle.

no IIRC ..you can adjust idle with the stop screws and air bleeds.. then look at the TPS voltage and may have to re-set.

[Kev m]

no IIRC ..you can adjust idle with the stop screws and air bleeds.. then look at the TPS voltage and may have to re-set.

 

That's what I said (or was attempting too lol). I.E. if you change the linkage positions with the throttle stop screws you effectively change the TPS setting. You at least have to check it (even if you MIGHT not have to adjust it). Either way you have to "mess" with it in terms of inspecting the output voltage.

[rodekyll]

02 stone is a hydro -- don't mess with the valves as part of std maintenance.

[diablo45]

02 stone is a hydro -- don't mess with the valves as part of std maintenance.

02 stone is not a hydro. I have one. 03/04 are hydros.


Sam

[rodekyll]

Sorry if I misspoke on the stone/hydro.  My 2002 EV is a hydro.

[LowRyter]

hard to say if you need a new TPS.

I think this one will work  (at least is fits my Sport and EV)

http://ca-cycleworks.com/pf3c

[Ryeguy74]

Thanks for all the advice! Good call on basics first, unfortunately I only have a tent im keeping it in which is great to keep it out of the elements but not so great for working in non freezing conditions so come spring I will look into this but figured I can do some research now.

The only other thing it needs is rear shocks which I may go hunting for soon but as far as the throttle issue I will definitely start w the basics and see if it solves anything. I know the guy told me he did just change the valve seals so hopefully those are good to go, But that video is good for getting an idea of how it works so thank you! I learned everything I know through videos so they help out alot, if it comes to the TPS that is, Im gonna guess it will but again better to rule everything out first.

Also figured if worse comes to worse and I need help might look for a mechanic in northern Jersey who could possibly help. Got a little overwhelmed reading the issues it could be before I posted so I appreciate the guidance, any and all is very appreciated!

[Kev m]

No worries, we've got you covered.

Hell, if it got tough enough we could always drop by to help, or you could tow it down to my at least semi heated shop. 

[SaskMick]

How can I find out if I have problems with ECM, PTSD or TPS ?  Maybe its just PSD ?   

[fotoguzzi]

Changed the valve seals? How many miles on the bike?

[Ryeguy74]

Haha Kev May take you up on that some day! at least when it gets warmer, and fotoguzzi thanks again for that video, it at least helps me see how all that is set up makes it not look like such a monster to work on haha

[Kev m]

Haha Kev May take you up on that some day! at least when it gets warmer, and fotoguzzi thanks again for that video, it at least helps me see how all that is set up makes it not look like such a monster to work on haha

No worries. It's a good solid bike and pretty straightforward to work on once you get oriented to it.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Nothin to it really. Listen to Kev.. and if he has time, let him walk you through a basic tuneup. After that, you'll understand it and ..welcome to WG. 

[John A]

Welcome , congratulations on the bike, it's a damn fine motorcycle . Simple and reliable, fun to ride. I have an '02 Stone, non hydro. Where are you located?

[Kiwi_Roy]

I doubt the TPS is gone at that milage, it may need adjusting though, You can soon check it out with a multimeter, it should ramp smoothly from 150 mV to about 4-1/2 Volts.

[drburt]

Had slight issues with low idle on my 2001 EV when I got it at the end of last summer.
Adjusted valves
Set TPS with multimeter
Synced throttle bodies with homemade vacuum thing (tubing, fence slat and oil)
Set idle by ear

Idles/runs great.

I've got some good links to web pages that you can glean some great instructions from.
Out listening to some live music without access to the links at the moment.
I'll post them later if you'd like.
Brent

[guzziownr]

Had slight issues with low idle on my 2001 EV when I got it at the end of last summer.
Adjusted valves
Set TPS with multimeter
Synced throttle bodies with homemade vacuum thing (tubing, fence slat and oil)
Set idle by ear

Idles/runs great. Brent

This process takes about 90 minutes once you have done it a few times.  I had a '00 Jackal and found it to be very reliable and easy to work on like all Guzzis.  I would do this every Spring.

[drburt]

Here are a few of the websites that helped me understand what I was doing when I adjusted the valves, set TPS and balanced the throttle bodies.
As I said, I gleaned information from several resources to understand what needed to be done.
I'm not sure any single page or document got me through all of the procedures.
As I stated earlier, I built my own manometer. My home brew manometer is not precise in any way, but it was better than nothing. You can search the internet to find out how to roll your own manometer.

I make no claim to the validity of the information provided in the links below (obligatory disclaimer).
Use at your own risk.

http://archive.guzzitech.com/EVTuneup-Jeff_B.html
http://www.obairlann.net/reaper/motorcycle/guzzi/balance.html
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_tonti.html

[smdl]

hard to say if you need a new TPS.

I think this one will work  (at least is fits my Sport and EV)

http://ca-cycleworks.com/pf3c

Sorry for the brief hijack -- can anyone confirm that this TPS works on the V11 Sport/Le Mans? I'd like to have a spare on hand, and that's a reasonable price.

Thanks,
Shaun

[Luap McKeever]

Ryeguy74, tell us a few more things.

Is this a new problem or did you acquire the bike with the problem?
Did the bike have any symptoms prior to acting this way?
Could it be a bad batch of gas?
Maybe your fuel filter is clogged. Sounds like it may be starving for fuel to me.

If it was the TPS, usually there'd be a flat spot while running at a certain RPM.

Could it be something as simple as the fast idle adjustment out of whack?