death of the manual in pickup trucks

[old head]

Been looking for a new one since I lost my frontier in the flood.  None of the big three have manuals in their lineups, only automatics.

Frontiers have one, Tacoma only in SR5 mode and the Colorado/Canyon in the base trim only.

Ram has one if you get the Cummins.

Old Head

[SaskMick]

They are almost all manuals in Europe.   Stop go vehicles is a North American thing.

[jas67]

Cars are heading that way too.   The manufactures are forcing it.

We are selling both our manual transmission TDI's back to VW under the buyback.
Several of the cars we're interested in only have a manual available the base trim level with no options 
Our TDI's are both loaded.

I like the nice features, but, want a manual, in a hatchback, or wagon.   That's getting increasingly hard to fine.

We've both always had manuals, and hate automatics.   The car market these days is hell for us.
And, no, we don't want to buy older cars just to get the manual.

[oldbike54]

 Probably easier to convert automatics to self driving .


  Dusty

[Robert]

Costs the manufacturer a LOT to certify each drive line configuration.

Not worth it for the small percentage of manual transmissions that a few customers desire.

[Sasquatch Jim]

 I used to have only manual transmission trucks and cars.  Since my creeping leg paralysis I find that I can only drive automatics.  Now days it is only automatics with cruise control and hand throttle.

[Testarossa]

Subaru still offers the 6-speed manual in the new Impreza. Not relevant to pickups, of course. I suppose a lot of sports cars will continue to offer manuals, but fuel-efficiency standards will put automatics in most cars and trucks.

[ITSec]

As mentioned, the real driver here is fuel economy requirements and the associated competitive pressure. Manual transmissions in future will be only available as a 'luxury' item for sports models; even the base model vehicles will have high-efficiency automatics, many likely CVTs.

I rather suspect that the break will be between cheap cars with CVTs, and more expensive ones with multi-speed (i.e., six or more) automatics (paddle shifters will be a performance option). It is possible that some trucks might end up with paddle shifters to allow over-riding the programmed shift points, for situations like heavy loads, towing, or extended uphill runs.

[Kev m]

Imports (at least those from JAPanInc.) have always limited your choice of options based on models and packages. As such you can't get the high end stuff with manuals much of the time.

That was a piece of my decision making process when I decided to go with a Wrangler last year over a Colorado or Taco.

I really like how some companies (including Jeep and Mini) allow you to really mix and match the options, including the 6-spd gearboxes.

Edit- I'll add that in a pickup or anything with which I might tow extensively I prefer an auto, but that's from having stored a boat for years where I had to backup a steep and narrow incline to place it in storage after each use. I have to go slow when backing a trailer cause I'm just not good at it.

[yogidozer]

How many of us learned on a Three on a tree?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ksWKOy665o

[bad Chad]

Cars are heading that way too.   The manufactures are forcing it.

We are selling both our manual transmission TDI's back to VW under the buyback.
Several of the cars we're interested in only have a manual available the base trim level with no options 
Our TDI's are both loaded.

I like the nice features, but, want a manual, in a hatchback, or wagon.   That's getting increasingly hard to fine.

We've both always had manuals, and hate automatics.   The car market these days is hell for us.
And, no, we don't want to buy older cars just to get the manual.

I feel your frustration, but the mfg aren't forcing it, the buying public is.  The American buyers simply don't want sticks.  If they did, the mfg would gladly provide them, all they want to do is sell more units.  It's hard to text and steer and shift all at the same time!

[Sheepdog]

There was a time not so long ago when stick-shifts were all I'd drive. Even my kids are clutch aficionados. However, I now find that my entire stable have automatics and most likely my next vehicle will, too. Availability is part of why, but there are plenty of reasons this happened:

     1) The new automatics are just as efficient at sipping fuel and are often better.
     2) My wife and I share our vehicles and she has physical difficulty with a clutch.
     3) Paddle shifters are the new way to have greater control for sport driving.

...to name three. As more and more technical innovations show up in vehicles, cars are becoming more appliance-like...safe, comfortable conveyances. I gave up on using 4-wheelers as a way to create my identity long ago. My motorcycles and bicycles do that nowadays.

[RANDM]

How many of us learned on a Three on a tree?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ksWKOy665o

Pinned the tail on one donkey. 

Maurie.

[BRIO]

You can still get a RAM2500 with a manual and Cummins.

[Rough Edge racing]

You can still get a RAM2500 with a manual and Cummins.

  Yes, and the least expensive one is over 35 grand from what I see...Diesel option alone is nearly $8000.....

  The internet says the 2017 Frontier has manuals available in all models? 

   I got my license in 64 and have never owned a vehicle with an automatic...But I don't buy new vehicles....

[GearheadGrrrl]

Gee, you mean all those "manly men" that buy big pickups can't even handle a manual transmission? How they gonna handle a 10 speed Roadranger with no synchromesh?

[kirby1923]

Automatics are probably easier on the drive train for most I think.

When a vehicle becomes just a way to get from point to point without the pleasure of driving it or the skill to do it properly there is little point in a manual.

Everything is headed that direction, even motos.

[Triple Jim]

My question is:  When did automatics become less expensive to rebuild than manuals?  About 15 years ago, after getting the transmission in one of my vans rebuilt, I noticed that the cost to get a manual transmission rebuilt was much higher.  Having rebuilt a 4-speed manual myself, I couldn't imagine an automatic being less labor intensive, but either it is, or it's done so much less often that the rebuild kits and mechanics that know how are more expensive because of that.

[Lannis]

Well, you know, we worried about Convertibles going away forever back in the 70s when (I think) Cadillac and Corvette made their VERY LAST OF THE CONVERTIBLES of all time, and there wouldn't be any more .....

Anything can change.

Lannis

[sib]

But how are you going to hold your smart phone, text, fiddle with your navigator, and sip your latte all at once if you also have to deal with a pesky shift lever?

[rocker59]

This is old news.

Full-size pickups have been going automatic for a long time.  The development has all been in the heavy-duty automatics because of the increased load carrying ability of the full-size trucks and ever stricter emissions regulations.

The low-end half tons were the last hold-outs, but now that's mostly gone.

The newest automatics in the trucks are very strong.  Add to that the fact that they've been electronic for nearly two decades, making it easier for the OEMs to meet the stricter emissions regulations.

I think some of you might be surprised at how many big rigs have also gone automatic over the past decade...

Yes, I'd prefer the manual option, but as was mentioned, going forward that will be reserved for sports cars and specialty vehicles like the Jeeps.

[Roebling3]

I just bought my 1st automatic. It is also my 1st 4 dr. A big dog was the driving force. A not new Ford Flex. The last thing I drove this big had a Bull dog on its nose and a 15 speed Triplex.  R3~

[Wayne Orwig]

Part of the issue is that auto transmissions now get better fuel economy that manuals. Manufacturers like having the better 'CAFE' ratings, so it is harder to get a manual.

I even noticed that Ford and GM are collaborating on a ten speed automatic. That will be close to having a CVT, without the wear problems.
http://www.trucktrend.com/news/163-news121003-gm-ford-to-jointly-develop-10-speed-automatic-for-trucks-suvs/

My question is:  When did automatics become less expensive to rebuild than manuals? 

I suspect it is a matter of volume. Many auto transmission shops have no clue how to actually rebuild a transmission. What they do is swap in a remanufactured one, and send off your bad one to be remanufactured. If it was a manual, they would have to actually do it right there in the shop. No money to be made doing that.

I still think that it should be illegal to have an auto transmission without a doctors permission. Get more people driving sticks again, and they won't be texting and driving. Maybe they will even put some effort into their driving.

[Scott of the Sahara]

I recently bought a used VW Jetta with the stock 2.5 and 6 speed automatic. I can say that the transmission makes the car totally enjoyable to drive. When I want the car to move, I mash down on the gas and it goes, right now. If I want to shift into sport it is a quick pull on the shifter.
I like the new transmissions.
I do not miss the manuals.

[Dilliw]

Part of the issue is that auto transmissions now get better fuel economy that manuals. Manufacturers like having the better 'CAFE' ratings, so it is harder to get a manual.


I suspect it is a matter of volume. Many auto transmission shops have no clue how to actually rebuild a transmission. What they do is swap in a remanufactured one, and send off your bad one to be remanufactured. If it was a manual, they would have to actually do it right there in the shop. No money to be made doing that.

The Skyactiv automatic in my Mazda 3 is rated at 1 mpg better than the manual.  It's also a "sealed unit" with no recommended service interval.  Basically if the light comes on you replace it.  I've got 125k on it with no issues so far and that includes towing my motorcycles.  Fingers crossed.

[charlie b]

I like automatics.  I also like being able to select the gear I want sometimes and most of the newer autos allow that as well.

The best automatic I drove was in the wife's Mini Cooper S.  Paddle shifters.  Was a hoot shifting 'manually' but the auto did a better job than I did, even on very twisty roads.  It 'knew' when to downshift to keep the engine in the peak output band (on Sport setting) and had near instant shifts.

Trucks?  I'd never get another with a manual.  Rebuilds?  Autos are simple to rebuild.  The big difference is you have to keep them SPOTLESS inside.  Getting even a tiny bit of grit in the valve body can be death to the tranny.  And autos don't need to be rebuilt as often as a thrashed manual with a clutch.  Yes, clutch changes are simple on a RWD vehicle but, still ahve to be done.  The auto in my truck has only had fluid changes and it has 106k miles on it, with over 30k of that towing an RV.

[Triple Jim]

The Allison 6 speed automatic in our '71 Bluebird motorhome is a pretty nice setup.  After using it, I doubt I'd opt for a manual in that vehicle.  It has a lockup torque converter that's active in gears 3-6, which are the normal road gears.  At every shift, it unlocks, shifts, and locks, so the efficiency is very nearly the same as a manual.

I assume that lockup converters are normal items these days, but I don't know if they lock in gears other than high gear.

[jas67]

Imports (at least those from JAPanInc.) have always limited your choice of options based on models and packages. As such you can't get the high end stuff with manuals much of the time.

One notable exception is the Mazda 3 Hatchback, which has a manual available in all but one mid trim level (of like 5 or 6 available).   I'm sure the sedan is the same.

Because of this, the Mazda is at the top of list for my next car.

At the recent car show we were at, the new Civic Hatchback caught our attention, but, again, base trim only, meaning none of the upgrades we want.   The soon-to-be released Civic Si is expected to be sedan and coupe only (no hatch), but, the Civic R is to be a hatch (but, also about $10k more than I want to spend).

Frustrated.   

[jas67]

I feel your frustration, but the mfg aren't forcing it, the buying public is.  The American buyers simply don't want sticks.  If they did, the mfg would gladly provide them, all they want to do is sell more units.  It's hard to text and steer and shift all at the same time!

By not allowing manuals to be combined with other desirable features, they're trying to push buyer's away from them, so, they can say, "no one bought them, so we stopped offering them."

As for your last comment, maybe automatics should be outlawed, and only manuals offered, you know for safety reasons -- force people to put the damned phone down so they can drive.

Sadly, it'll go the other way.    Self-driving cars will be mandated (fist by insurance companies) to protect us from ourselves.

[Kev m]

WRX Jay!

I know the modern autos are "better" than the modern manuals. As a matter of fact I made the decision to risk it with the dated manual in the Wrangler simply because of the fun factor.

Though I will ad that when it comes to foul weather driving I just feel there's a bit more control available with a clutch than a paddle or gear lever shifted auto (gear or CVT). The engagement (or disengagement) of the drive can be feathered as desired with a clutch when sometimes servos are a little harsh.