Author Topic: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke  (Read 2963 times)

Offline jacksonracingcomau

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1850
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2017, 07:39:52 PM »
This one was tight ! I used boat shackles in flange webs
Yes my claret, leaked a bit doing this,
I relieved the hole when it finally came out


kirby1923

  • Guest
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2017, 08:49:45 PM »
I just re-read your post.
One of the tapped flange ears broke off. The one near the breather. only one left is tapped.
 I cant tap the others because there is not enough depth to get the tap to clear the flange and not hit the case.
Did I misunderstand?


It should be ok to go all the way to the case even in a tiny bit on one of the other holes then as been posted by Chuck use a bottom tap to thread. You can easily clean up the threads in the case with a tap.
If you don't want to pull the engine this may be the best bet.


Offline swooshdave

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1290
  • Location: Portland, Oregon
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2017, 09:55:12 PM »
This one was tight ! I used boat shackles in flange webs
Yes my claret, leaked a bit doing this,
I relieved the hole when it finally came out



What kind of unholy hell is that?!?!?!?!

Before I got to that point I would have just smeared JB Weld all over and started drinking.  :boozing:
--
2001 V11 Sport
1972 Norton Production Racer Replica
1973 Bultaco Sherpa T
1975 Ducati 860GT

Online pete roper

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 4226
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2017, 10:16:00 PM »
This one was tight ! I used boat shackles in flange webs
Yes my claret, leaked a bit doing this,
I relieved the hole when it finally came out



Actually that's brilliant Martin! Well played! Yeah, it's a pisser when the red stuff leaks out! :grin:

Pete

Offline 93spada

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 164
  • Location: Schenectady NY
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2017, 05:46:16 AM »
If it's being this much of a bastard I'd just accept you're going to have to get the rods out, (leave the Pistons in the barrels.) then stand it on its bell housing in a press and use the crank as a drift and press the bugger out. Make sure you're ready to catch it when it comes out, the crank is heavy, and make sure the nose of the crank and woodruff key don't damage the front main.

Pete

Great idea
ill put that into the last ditch pile.
PS what do I call the baby boy after he comes out. "Rod Man"?
PJM

Offline 93spada

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 164
  • Location: Schenectady NY
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2017, 05:47:57 AM »
If you have a bottom tap or are willing to make one, you could tap all the holes as far as the tap will go. Then be creative by grinding, turning etc. down the first couple of threads on the bolts to under the minor diameter of the threads. Run all the bolts in, and slowly tighten each in a cross pattern. "Probably" it will break loose. Once it breaks loose using this method, you'll "probably" be able to get it out. That's all I've got. If that doesn't work, you'll have to use the crank as a battering ram.  :shocked: :smiley:

Forgot about a bottom tap!!
This sound like the next move.
Thanks
PJM

Offline 93spada

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 164
  • Location: Schenectady NY
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2017, 05:50:54 AM »
This one was tight ! I used boat shackles in flange webs
Yes my claret, leaked a bit doing this,
I relieved the hole when it finally came out



That looks like the same era case that Charlie was talking about. It has the flywheel sensor hole. Same as mine.
Tight as a frogs A$$.
PJM

Offline 93spada

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 164
  • Location: Schenectady NY
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2017, 05:53:10 AM »
This one was tight ! I used boat shackles in flange webs
Yes my claret, leaked a bit doing this,
I relieved the hole when it finally came out



What can I say???
Thanks!!
I feel better.
PJM

Offline 93spada

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 164
  • Location: Schenectady NY
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2017, 06:11:35 AM »
This one was tight ! I used boat shackles in flange webs
Yes my claret, leaked a bit doing this,
I relieved the hole when it finally came out



This looks like it should be added to the special Guzzi tool list.
#65924700/B
Thing MG will sell them??

Gotta say..... We were headed in that type of direction!!!

PJM

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 9486
  • Happily stuck in the past.
    • Antietam Classic Cycle
  • Location: Rohrersville, Maryland
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2017, 08:47:10 AM »
Forgot about a bottom tap!!
This sound like the next move.
Thanks

I tapped the other holes and only succeeded in breaking more of the flange off and wasting more time. Bearing still hadn't budged... 
Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
'69 V700
'69 Ambassador
'76 Convert
'85 Moto Morini 350 K2

Most used word in my vocabulary lately: "whatever", usually delivered with all of the disdain of an aging Valley Girl...

Offline bobdar

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 213
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2017, 11:48:10 AM »
bob darcey
lakewood, colorado
'75 850T
'56 Matchless G80

Offline 5154guzzi

  • Guzzi Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 323
    • Team Subtle Crowbar
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2017, 11:57:02 AM »
I just went through the same thing with a CX100 engine a few weeks ago.  I was able to drive the bearing flange out from the cylinder spigot holes with a large bronze solid driver ( about 1 inch diameter and a about 15 inches long( and a small sledge.  Concentrated the blows on the ribs on the inside side of the flange and kept alternating back and forth. It came out with no damage to the actual bearing or the the crank.  The carrier was toast  like yours when the flange broke, a first for me after about a dozen different teardowns.  I didn't use heat or cold, though that would have probably made it a little easier.

Offline 93spada

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 164
  • Location: Schenectady NY
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2017, 02:46:12 PM »
With all your help....Thank you....
Here's what I am going to try next when I get all the stuff.

Tap the rest of the flange holes with a bottom tap then bolts to jack to the case. FYI holes vary from 9.07 to 9.62mm
3 jaw puller to crank and outside of the flange
liberal heat with a HD heat gun
then freeze from the center of the flange out while torque is still applied to bolts and puller. CAUTION Freeze is butane, propane and alcohol. May make a good YouTube video. (Hey,,,,, watch this!!!!)
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dSpoUUFBBM    This was a FD near us.

Then if needed add Guzzi wrench and big stick from the inside.

Hopefully it wont need a rinse and repeat!
Wish me luck!!
PJM

Offline jacksonracingcomau

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1850
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2017, 04:58:13 PM »
With all your help....Thank you....
Here's what I am going to try next when I get all the stuff.

Tap the rest of the flange holes with a bottom tap then bolts to jack to the case. FYI holes vary from 9.07 to 9.62mm
3 jaw puller to crank and outside of the flange
liberal heat with a HD heat gun
then freeze from the center of the flange out while torque is still applied to bolts and puller. CAUTION Freeze is butane, propane and alcohol. May make a good YouTube video. (Hey,,,,, watch this!!!!)
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dSpoUUFBBM    This was a FD near us.

Then if needed add Guzzi wrench and big stick from the inside.

Hopefully it wont need a rinse and repeat!
Wish me luck!!

Think my way was quicker, looks ugly but really only 4 holes drilled and chain to puller, took me more time to think of it than do it, way, way quicker than removing sump rods etc. I considered drilling new bearing flange same way and being ready for next time but relieved case instead.
Best of luck

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 25739
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2017, 07:52:06 PM »
Good luck! We are all counting on you...  :smiley:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.' - Bertrand Russell

Offline Tom H

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1502
  • Location: So. Cal.
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #45 on: February 28, 2017, 01:27:36 AM »
Sorry to hear of your troubles with this. It sucks to break the flange off. I was just trying to replace the gasket like you.

I had that happen to my old Eldo. I tried the method of bolts as pullers and set screws to protect the thread in the case. Gently and evenly turned the bolts and I heard a pop. Finally it came loose. Wrong broke the flange. It was stuck. I finally got it out, wasn't pretty. Should have dropped the pan and tried the hammer and wood rod.

Yours seems much more stuck. You have some very good ideas here. I'll remember them if I ever have this problem again.

Good luck!!!!
Tom
2004 Cali EV Touring
1972 Eldo
1970 Ambo
1973 R75/5 SWB with Toaster
2007 HD Street Bob
1953 Triumph 6T (one day it will be on the road!)

Offline 93spada

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 164
  • Location: Schenectady NY
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #46 on: February 28, 2017, 06:12:28 AM »
Sorry to hear of your troubles with this. It sucks to break the flange off. I was just trying to replace the gasket like you.

I had that happen to my old Eldo. I tried the method of bolts as pullers and set screws to protect the thread in the case. Gently and evenly turned the bolts and I heard a pop. Finally it came loose. Wrong broke the flange. It was stuck. I finally got it out, wasn't pretty. Should have dropped the pan and tried the hammer and wood rod.

Yours seems much more stuck. You have some very good ideas here. I'll remember them if I ever have this problem again.

Good luck!!!!
Tom

Funny, I was just thinking of the set screws overnight. Tossing and turning is sometimes good.
PJM

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 25739
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #47 on: February 28, 2017, 06:34:53 AM »
A dog point set screw..
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.' - Bertrand Russell

Offline Tobit

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2494
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #48 on: February 28, 2017, 11:29:07 AM »
I'll throw in a little aside here.  Before you button everything back up, replace the gasket under the breather pipe housing.  I thought I had a rear seal leak on the LM IV and it turned out to be a torn gasket.  There was a burr or something that cut it.  Too long ago to remember details.

Good luck with it.

Tobit
Roman, '86 LM IV



I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol

kirby1923

  • Guest
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #49 on: February 28, 2017, 11:49:16 AM »
A dog point set screw..



At first glance I thought you were implying that the flange had a set screw...duh!!!

Good idea!

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 25739
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #50 on: February 28, 2017, 12:06:27 PM »
Just giving the OP an easy way instead of having to turn down the end of the bolts.  :smiley:
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.' - Bertrand Russell

kirby1923

  • Guest
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #51 on: February 28, 2017, 03:58:28 PM »
Just giving the OP an easy way instead of having to turn down the end of the bolts.  :smiley:


Should have known you would come up with a good idea and that be it!

Your OK Chuck I don't care what they say!

:-)
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 06:04:47 PM by kirby1923 »

Offline 93spada

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 164
  • Location: Schenectady NY
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #52 on: March 01, 2017, 09:06:34 PM »
HI Folks
The last of the flange saga......
Looked at bottom tapping all the remaining holes in the flange to jack it out.
Found that most of the holes were all cast/drilled different sizes. The tap that would have done the best was an 11mm.
Needed to buy the 11mm bottom tap. Found that at a specialty tool shop. $8 Needed to buy the standard tap to start the threads. same supplier $7. Needed 7- 11mm x 1.5 bolts. Found head bolts for some GM and Toyota.  Different supplier. $36. Got to that point and didn't even look for dog point set screws. (Thought about small washers on top of the regular set screws to stop them from turning).
All too much like work and time!!

Sooooo........Bough t 4 cans of dusts off spray from Target.
Went to a buddies that has a machine shop. The main tool was a oxy / accet torch.
Put on the 3 jaw puller ( as an aside, ours has 3/4" wide jaws. If they were 1/2" wide they would fit the flange better and not push up against the threaded holes in the casting and pull more evenly).
Put the 3 jaw on and wiggled and tapped til it pulled as evenly as it would.
We heated the case til the oil started to smoke (300f ??) then added a little more heat. Maybe 400??
Hosed down the bearing flange with 2 cans at once, upside down, of the dust off and cranked away on the puller.
Hooooray!!!!! Came out pretty as you please!!!!!

There is some galling on the case. I don't know if it was done going in or out.
A little dressing and she will be ready to re-assemble.

Thanks again to all for your support!!
Paul






PJM

Offline bmc5733946

  • Guzzi Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 399
  • Location: East Lansing, MI
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #53 on: March 01, 2017, 09:52:55 PM »
WILL = way

Brian
1989 MILLE GT 
2004 BREVA 750     
1975  Convert

Offline canuck750

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4313
  • Location: Edmonton, AB Canada
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #54 on: March 01, 2017, 10:01:11 PM »
WOW, I have been lucky so far, five engine rebuilds and the main bearing came out easily,

I tip my hat to the extreme efforts shown great method, I hope I never need to use it.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 10:14:40 PM by canuck750 »
1949 Guzzi Airone
1958 Guzzi Cardellino
1972 Guzzi Eldorado
1972 Benelli Enduro
1973 Guzzi V7 Sport
1973 Laverda SF1
1973 Benelli 650S
1974 Guzzi 750S
1975 Moto Morini 3 1/2
1975 Ducati 860 GT
1978 Moto Morini 500
2015 KLR 650
2016 BMW K1600

SOLD
1973 V7 Sport
1975 750 S3
1977 Le Mans
1993 1000

twowings

  • Guest
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #55 on: March 01, 2017, 10:03:26 PM »
Way to persevere!!  Congratulations... :thumb:

Offline Tom H

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1502
  • Location: So. Cal.
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #56 on: March 01, 2017, 10:13:22 PM »
WOW!!!!!!!

Congrats on finally getting it out!!! :thumb: :thumb:

Now make sure that you get the CORRECT size replacement!! Don't ask how I know but suffice it to say a seizure at 70mph is not fun :sad:

Tom
2004 Cali EV Touring
1972 Eldo
1970 Ambo
1973 R75/5 SWB with Toaster
2007 HD Street Bob
1953 Triumph 6T (one day it will be on the road!)

Offline Muzz

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5803
  • On the backside of the planet.
  • Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #57 on: March 01, 2017, 10:14:20 PM »
And THAT is why I reckon this has to be the best site around. :thumb:

Well done Spada and all those that inputted. Love it when a plan comes together.
Muzz. Cristchurch, New Zealand
03 Breva

Life is just a bowl of Allbran
Ya wake up in the morning and it's there

Offline siabeid

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 119
  • Location: Kettle Falls, WA
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #58 on: March 02, 2017, 04:49:41 PM »
Good work. What an ordeal! Whenever I run into something like that, I always figure I am doing something wrong. Sometimes I am, but sometimes it is just a giant PITA that has to be worked through. A  big fear that I have is I will screw something up even worse!

Offline 93spada

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 164
  • Location: Schenectady NY
Re: I screwed up!!! SPIII Main bearing flange broke
« Reply #59 on: March 02, 2017, 06:15:29 PM »
Thanks All
I agree, Very good site with lots of "been there done" that experience. Can't get that from a book!!
Yup, mic'd shaft and checked book and am within tolerance for stock size.
I will probably use the thin arm 3 jaw puller from now on and not Guzzi tool. 3 points are better than 2.
Yup, got a new breather gasket too.

Thought spring was coming to upstate NY and was getting ready to ride but it was just a sucker hole. 2F Saturday night!!!
PJM

 


Advertise your products today. All proceeds go back into this website.
Your ad will show up over 10,000 times daily!
Advertise Here