Bill Hagan Hangs Out Shingle as Motorcycle Electrical Consultant

[Bill Hagan]

When Hades freezes over.   

No, I need advice.

I have been annoying the good folks over on GrisoGhetto with my tedious questions about attempting to mount some conspicuity lights on my Griso.

To prevent anyone from hiring a hitman to take me out, I will spare readers here from all but one aspect of that struggle.

The BLUF is this: How to power the lights?

Here are the details:

I bought these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VL4H78W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The specs say "12V 24V 10W."

Wayne Orwig mounted the very same things on my EV and did a super job.   
 




I thought I would just do the Soviet thing and copy what he did.   

Unfortunately, Wayne did such a predictably craftsmanlike job on the EV, I can't follow the wires without disassembling it all and emulating Lucas by turning light into darkness.   

So, I now wish to put same on the Griso.  FWIW, I originally wanted to mount them using fork clamps, that turned into a mini-disaster, so my present thinking is to mount them low, using the fender fasteners. 







Wherever they go, of course, they need juice, thus this post.

Would be grateful for any counsel on how to hook that up.

Given what I understand to be the low draw, would a straight shot back to battery work without fuse or relay?

If those needed, what size fuse?  Relay? 

Is a switch required as Wayne put on my EV?

Are the kits mentioned on the Ghetto forum helpful?  See, e.g., http://stores.advmonster.com/wiring-harness-pnp-with-switch/.

Another option might be to link into what another electrical whiz used to attach some small (and rather useless) pin lights on the handguards? 





Or, even easier, pulling those tiny lights and wiring the new ones into that power routing.  FWIW, hose are 72mA 1W per; details here: https://www.bikevis.com/product/bikevis-bullets-v2-motorcycle-running-lights/ & http://www.webbikeworld.com/lights/bikevis-bullets-v2/.

I'll renew my offer to the Grisisti over on the Ghetto by I now inviting your comments and ridicule.   

Grazie.

Bill

[Edited to remove those expletive-deleted � marks.  Grrrrr.   ]

[Tom H]

 

I just hit post for a question about driving light wiring on my EV and find your post. Maybe they should merge

Tom

[tazio]

Hey Mr.Bill, as me and electrons have always been at odds with one another, I can offer no advice in this regard. But I did notice, and disregarding the minimal unsprung weight,  that your intended mounting points may unduly subject your lights to the demons of vibration .
Or maybe not.
Say hey to Ms Kathy from me

[Chuck in Indiana]

Given what I understand to be the low draw, would a straight shot back to battery work without fuse or relay?

The Kid and I were on a bicycle trip in the Green mountains of Vermont many years ago. We were totally lost, and stopped and asked a farmer, "Can we take this road to Bondville?" He looked at us a minute or so, and slowly said, "Well, I guess you could.. but you wouldn't get there." 

[ITSec]

• Yes, you need a fuse, else a short in these lights could cause the whole battery system (and maybe other stuff) to fail.
• While you don't NEED a relay, it's a darn good idea. Especially if you want the lights to turn off when the bike turns off. Otherwise, you'll drain the battery.
• If they are for conspicuity they don't need a switch - but having a fuse would allow you to disable them is you are tracing a problem.
• 10w is not enough of a draw to worry about having them on full-time.

[twowings]

Kiwi_Roy is your friend here, but I do know you should use a 12V relay with aux lights...too much current draw for most switches direct-to-battery...potential for melted wires or worse...

[RinkRat II]

 Simple Fix, pay Mister Orwig a meaningful visit

    Paul B

[Wayne Orwig]

I hate when they get mounted as unsprung weight. Plus the shock and vibes are not going to do them any good.

Low draw relative to a set of 55 watt incandescents. But still, 10 watts each, 20 watts total. Over 1 amp. A relay wouldn't hurt. The ignition switch will appreciate a relay.

Fuse near the battery, OF COURSE. 5 amp should be good.

If you can not switch them off, at night you will blind people. DON'T be that A--HOLE please.

[rodekyll]

For perspective, a standard incandescent 1157 bulb pulls about 7w on tail and 22w on brake.  Incandescent dash lights are ~3w/ea.

[Muzz]

Simple Fix, pay Mister Orwig a meaningful visit

    Paul B

Ya beat me to it!

Good excuse (if you need one) to go for a ride.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I think if you look at the specs for the lights it will say 10 - 30 Volts meaning that you get full brightness at anywhere between 10 and 30, so you can afford to drop 2 Volts in the wiring, unlike an incandescent lamp you don't need a relay from the brightness point of view, you could just hang them off the existing headlight relay through an in-line fuse so it can't short out the main lights.

If you decide to go with a relay powered from a new fuse how about having the coil powered from the existing relay OR direct from the battery via a switch in case the main lights fail

A few ideas
Power them from the headlight bucket High or Low beam or the park light with a switch in series.
High and Low beams can be connected thru a pair of diodes
The park light is on with the key but it's on a separate fuse
The headlight bucket is right where you want the lights

Like Wayne I think they will get shaken to bits on the lower fork, could you mount a light bar off one of those 3 screws we see further up the fork?

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2006_Griso_1100.gif

[Tom H]

I was thinking about your mounting idea on the forks down low. Thought it was a bit silly, thinking that the light beam at night would be jiggling all over.

So I'm at a light on the way home and what do I see, a BMW with the lights in the same place as you would like to do. I think they were there for more front light as in "see me", not to light up the road in the pitch black of night. They were little bullet style lights, they did stand out.

Tom

[pete roper]

And the reason why you'll ever find a reply from me to threads like this Bill is because anything I say will be dumber than doggy-doo compared to what the likes of Wayne and Roy can kick out. 

Pete

[JJ]

And the reason why you'll ever find a reply from me to threads like this Bill is because anything I say will be dumber than doggy-doo compared to what the likes of Wayne and Roy can kick out. 

Pete

I had a set of dual PIAA 1800X white LED driving lights on my ol' '83 850 LM-III.  They worked great because the stock headlight at night was weak at best, and had them set up on a separate relay switch. I should put a set on my Centuaro.




facebook photo upload

[Carlo DeSantis]

I was thinking about your mounting idea on the forks down low. Thought it was a bit silly, thinking that the light beam at night would be jiggling all over.

So I'm at a light on the way home and what do I see, a BMW with the lights in the same place as you would like to do. I think they were there for more front light as in "see me", not to light up the road in the pitch black of night. They were little bullet style lights, they did stand out.

Tom

A rule of thumb that I learned from a guy who engineered lighting for rally cars was that driving lights should be mounted as high as possible.  Fog and conspicuity lighting should be mounted low.

Best,

Carlo

[Muley]

Whatta ya want to put that junk on that purty motorsickle to begin with

[John Ulrich]

Bill,
You're over thinking this wiring thing.  I use lithium battery powered lights on my ......bicycle.  No wires, plug 'n play!   

[tris]

This is off the Breva but I did essentially the same on the Cali.

The relay holder is a 30Amp one that also holds 3 fuses.

Fused supply from the battery and an ignition controlled trigger.Rear brake light switch on the California  incorporated in the "startus interuptus" fix on the Breva

HTH

Tris

PS Simplistically Watts / Volts = Amps. So if you do the maths and select the nearest fuse above you won't be far out.

Roy et al please correct me if I've got that wrong

[screamday]

Well.....I have an EV. That's about all I can contribute. 

[ridingron]

...  I should put a set on my Centuaro 

A mini maglight duct taped to the front fender would be about a 200% improvement.

[lti_57]

here you go    http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms-law-calculator

If I am wiring lights or after market heated grips, I always run it thru a relay that is connected to a switched source.

[charlie b]

LOL.

Mine were flashlights.  The cheap LED ones from Costco.  Rigged a 12v to 4v regulator.  They lasted a lot longer than I thought they would.  Over 30k miles and still ticking.  And, yes, they put out more light than the H4 bulb on that bike.

A lot of guys out there put their Denali driving lights on the fork lowers.  Never understood that.  I like mine to be on the sprung part of the bike.  If you want them low then put them on a crash bar, as low as you want.

[ridingron]

I mounted some lights down low. I used 35 watt lights from an auto parts store mounted on a bracket held in place by the axle pinch bolts. The same lamp lasted  the 20-25K miles until I removed them and went a different light and bracket.

[Bill Hagan]

Just back from a day of unfun errands in D.C.  Lordy, how I don't miss living in that blob.   

Anyway, just seeing all the replies.

Heading off to have sip of what corn should be instead of ethanol.

Will muse on this tomorrow.  Really appreciate (almost all of  ) the responses.

Bill

[Muley]

Really appreciate (almost all of  ) the responses.

 

[Kiwi_Roy]

This is off the Breva but I did essentially the same on the Cali.

The relay holder is a 30Amp one that also holds 3 fuses.

Fused supply from the battery and an ignition controlled trigger.Rear brake light switch on the California  incorporated in the "startus interuptus" fix on the Breva

HTH

Tris

PS Simplistically Watts / Volts = Amps. So if you do the maths and select the nearest fuse above you won't be far out.

Roy et al please correct me if I've got that wrong

Hi Tris,
           That's right
Nice job, an interesting relay socket, would you mind adding a link to it on the posting.
Roy

[Kiwi_Roy]

I had a set of dual PIAA 1800X white LED driving lights on my ol' '83 850 LM-III.  They worked great because the stock headlight at night was weak at best, and had them set up on a separate relay switch. I should put a set on my Centuaro.




facebook photo upload

JJ,
    The headlight on the old girl will benefit greatly from a decent feed and a pair of relays next to the lamp socket, even half a Volt drop in the wimpy wires to the H/L switch makes a huge difference to the brightness and don't forget a good solid ground from the bulb back to the main chassis.

This is what I did to my California II, similar bike wiring wise at least. The old style Bosch relays with the mounting tab would be more appropriate but I had lots of the small ones left over from my VII Sport.
Ignore the diode (Note 1) as shown from the coil circuit to keep it simple. I thought that was an interesting idea from Raz that provides some redundancy, normally no current passes but if the new fuse blows it fails back to the original wiring. Look closely at the photo, each relay has a diode.

[Bill Hagan]

Just posted this on the GrisoGhetto.  For reasons noted, below, I'll just paste in here with the addition of three pix:

====

Good morning -- or whatever it is where you are when you read this.

Overnight company's coming, so Kathi, usually a complaisant sweetie  , has on her "Mess with Me & You'll See Medusa" look , so I cannot wax as eloquently on all of this as I might like.

You may thank her, of course, as I will be brief ... or as much that as I am able. 

So ...

* I appreciate the concept of sprung v. unsprung weight, but think that no big issue in this application.

* Conspicuity has -- as I understand it (a disclaimer with many loopholes) -- way more at play than mere brightness. 

I also know in my head and heart that I could be stark nekkid on my Griso with a red lava lamp on my head and strobe lights fore and aft and some cretins out there would not see me.  That visual is too much even for me. 

But that isn't, IMO, the issue.  My (ex) M-I-L was fond of saying she wouldn't wear seat belts in a car because she might drive into a lake and drown. She died in bed, btw; may she R.I.P.

Life is, of course, more about probabilities than asteroids striking where I sit.  Moreover, the studies seem to indicate that "triangulation" of lights on motorcycles give motorcycles more of a "vehicular presence."  That leads to more (but never all) cagers "seeing" us sooner and at the speeds we are traveling.

I am certain -- code for think without any real proof -- that I have seen folks not turn in front of me and others not come out at intersections as result of seeing my diamond lights. 

* I do not think vibration any particular issue inasmuch as my Motolights -- which are, btw, of the filament variety, not the newer and much brighter LED sort -- have been going great guns for almost 70K miles.









That last is mojohand's Norge, not mine, but the result is same.

* I am socially responsible and civil enough not to shine ultra brights at nights into oncoming traffic.

* I remain skeered of the install, but will muddle through based upon the helpful suggestions here. 

Just heard hair snakes hiss ... better go.   

[Chuck in Indiana]

I am certain -- code for think without any real proof --

Ahhh, I think there is a career in politics waiting for you, counselor..
 

[tris]

Hi Tris,
           That's right
Nice job, an interesting relay socket, would you mind adding a link to it on the posting.
Roy

Happy to Roy, but I'm on my hols at the moment so you might have to wait until I get back to civilization (a laptop and not a phone) before I reply as I can't remember where I got it from

Watch this space

Tris