328i or nay.

[twhitaker]

A car lot in my neighborhood has a '07 BMW 321i for sale. 170,000 miles and he wants $5500. Says it's a 1 owner and gets great mileage. While I realize the Bimmer would cost more in maintenance I wonder if it's something I would quickly regret buying. My S-I-L had a Volvo that she loved but said she needed a second one to drive while it was in the shop. I have bikes but we don't have constant good weather. The '07 is a first year model, and as such, would there be any additional cautions to be aware of.

Yey or nay, what say you all?

[Tennmoto]

I would do a google search for Bmw 328 problems and see what comes up in forums
I had a BMW Z4 for a while and got rid of it when I started getting estimates for upcoming work.
Then I got a Mini Cooper and got rid of that too, the Mini was really fun to drive but when I hear about
Carbon buildup on intake and walnut shell blasting I get worried. I have a Honda Fit now and it's fun
To drive without worry.
I also love VW GTIs but I have read a lot of stories about problems so I still haven't gotten one
Most people sell or trade German cars when the warranty runs out , that's why there are so many used ones around here for not much money

[Chuck in Indiana]

Most people sell or trade German cars when the warranty runs out

there's a reason for that..

[Dilliw]

We have an '07 at only 84k miles and it's a great car.  At that price you should be able to find one with a whole lot less miles on it however.

The known problem with the '07 is it uses a one year only ABS module that has the same issue as the BMW motorcycles.  Once it lights the "triangle of death" you will be pestered by the car to fix it mostly by the fact that it cuts your cruise control off.  With that many miles that car has probably had it addressed but the forums were full of pissed off owners who had the module go out right after warranty and because it's a one off part it's about a $3,500 repair at the dealer.  Good thing is, just like the motorcycles, Module Masters will rebuild it for $250 and give you a 5 year warranty.  My service guy pulled the part and put it back on for me so the total bill was $700.

The other thing I would worry about is the amount of sensors on the car.  Once things start to get miles on it you are going to start chasing CEL and warning lights for every little thing.  For that reason alone I probably wouldn't touch any BMW over 130k miles.  And that's the shame of it; as stated above they are great cars.  The straight six has adequate power, rear wheel drive, decent suspension, built like a tank.  It's just all that technology that's going to defeat you.

[JeffOlson]

That price seems a bit steep for that car. Check Kelly Blue Book's website. Don't be like me: I always seem to receive less than KBB's value for vehicles I am selling, and I always pay more for vehicles I am buying!

My four boys and I have had dozens of BMW's over the past 20 years. (I paid for all of them but one.) They are great cars but very expensive to maintain. Still, they are not as expensive as my monthly health insurance and out-of-pocket health care expenses. Not even my current 7 Series tops that!

[Socalrob]

I would not do it.  Between owning BMW motorcycles and wife's two mercedes e class cars, and daughter's jetta, I would never again own a German car out of warranty.

Wife's last E class was totaled by a plastic guide rail in that caused a check engine light that kept car from being smog checked and registered - at 130,000 miles and 8 years old.  Pathetic.

Wife now drives a Subaru Crosstrek and is thrilled.

Daughter's jetta had a transmission failure at 95,000 miles that totaled the car.  Again, pathetic.

Seeing the engineering on BMW motorcycles gives me zero confidence that their cars would fair any better than the other German brands.

[canuck750]

I am on my 5th BMW. love the cars, great to drive, not so good to repair. I got burned on a 530i years ago keeping it past warranty, the electronic problems kicked in and the value plummeted. I keep the cars now until there is a couple months left on warranty and then sell them privately.

Problems with BMW, and probably all luxury cars is the complexity of the systems, I don't know anything about the 3 series but the 5 and 6 series use multiple computers interlinked to components. An example on my 2004 530 was the rear window defroster was connected through computers to dash instruments, failed re defroster was a $2K+ bill. Computer re-programing is a big issue. I had a 550 that under warranty needed a computer upgrade for brake sensors, the shop told me that alone was $1500. For the most part the cars have been flawless for the first 3 ~ 4 years.

I would stay away from a high mile Beemer.

[Howard R]

Go talk to your friendly neighborhood service location, and ask the price for standard maintenance on that model & year.  The answer to that question might also give you the answer to your original question.

Howard

[Lannis]

I would do a google search for Bmw 328 problems and see what comes up in forums ...

Great googly mooglies ... NO!

No one would ever buy a Moto Guzzi again if all their information came from Guzzi forums.

Lannis

[Dilliw]

Go talk to your friendly neighborhood service location, and ask the price for standard maintenance on that model & year.  The answer to that question might also give you the answer to your original question.

Howard

Our service has been very reasonsable since the warranty expired.  The key is to find a local specialist who knows all the problems.  An example Nick told us that the belt tensioner was a usual culprit of out of warranty repairs and as soon as we heard any squeaking bring it in.  $200 bucks later we had new belts, pully and tensioner.  If that belt goes it takes out half of the plastic in the bay and does $1000s worth of damage.

ts about $85 for one but the oil life computer means you only need changes every 10-15k.  Nick uses Motul instead of BMW so that saves some.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

"I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole."

[Chuck in Indiana]

"I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole."

Well, Charlie.. tell us how you really feel.  Me, either.

[lti_57]

Can Not help you

I do dig German cars but mostly older ones I have a E30 vert which i freaking love


Mine in the Middle

Oh yeah by the way i would say Nay

[Lcarlson]

I bought a 1993 325is new and kept it for 17 years until a foolish woman ran me onto a stone wall and totaled it. Only about 80,000 miles, but no significant major failures. OTOH, I bought a used 2003 325 xit sport wagon w/80,000 miles for $10,000 and spent more than twice that amount in repairs in the six years I had it. That said, I now have a new M240i on the way from Germany. I do like me my bimmers.

[simonome]

A car lot in my neighborhood has a '07 BMW 321i for sale. 170,000 miles and he wants $5500. Says it's a 1 owner and gets great mileage. While I realize the Bimmer would cost more in maintenance I wonder if it's something I would quickly regret buying. My S-I-L had a Volvo that she loved but said she needed a second one to drive while it was in the shop. I have bikes but we don't have constant good weather. The '07 is a first year model, and as such, would there be any additional cautions to be aware of.

Yey or nay, what say you all?

I've had 2 3-series of that time as company cars, both 320d.
Aboslutely loved the cars. The first one was driven for 90.000 km in 3 years without a glitch, and the second one did 40.000km...then I left the job.
As a self-employed in 2009, I've immediately purchased a 120d (same engine, basically the same car with 20cm less in wheelbase) and I'm still in love with it today. It has done 135.000km, and the only major expense has been changing brake pads at 100.000 km
Regular maintenance is not expensive at all. It used to be, but sometime towards 2012 at BMW (at least here in Italy) they've become much more sensible.
Aftersales serice is usally first-class. I've been replaced the whole dashboard within the warranty period, because it started to show a slight bump on the airbag area.
A couple years ago I've driven in for the regular servicing, and the dealer has stopped the car for a recall: they have changed the timing chain with ancillaries because of a possiblitiy of chain weakening and breaking. The car at the time had more than 100.000 km and 6 years. The could've easily ignore the thing, probably nothing would have happened, or it would have been well past any reasonable warranty period. But they have done it anyway.

As for the model-year, 2007 was well into production run. The model had been launched in 2005 (the MY of my first company car, which anyway behaved flawlessly). In 2007 the car was subject to some very slight cosmetic changes, so I wouldn't be worried about that.

The car drives sweetly. I love BMW's of that generation, and I simply don't like the fat carriages they sell today. If I only could find a genuine "factory fresh" secondhand 3series, I would go for that.

As for spare parts, it is true that electronics are horrible to repair and expensive to replace, but that is true for more or less any modern car.

Mechanics are not too expensive. I also own 2 3-series from the eighties and a K-75 from the nineties; if I need spare parts, I can get them quite cheaply from my local dealer. I once needed to have steeringwheel lock on my 320i. I've asked to the dealer, written its VIN, and after a couple week I've got the lock ready to install, with the mapping for my ignition key. I've been asked 30 €.

[ponti_33609]

We just sold our 14 X3 with a 35i engine.  Essentially your 28i with a turbo.  Funnest car I have ever owned.  They are though maintenance intensive.  You do not see many old ones on the road due to this.  They are expensive to keep up despite how good they are.  You are buying used but they are quite pricey just from a depreciation standpoint as well.  From new till the time we sold it cost us ~$500 per month.  Most Acura's and Honda's we have owned (way less fun) cost us ~$200 a month.

[simonome]

From new till the time we sold it cost us ~$500 per month.

 

What do you include in that figure? Do you count value depretiation too?

On mine I spend way less for maintenance.
I have a service inspection any other year: with oil change every time, and filters etc any other servicin (so every 4 years). I guess it's less than 300 € in 2 years.
Then brakes every 100.000 km (400 € or less in 5 years, more or less).
It is quite easy on tyres too. I'm into my 2nd set of summer tyres and 2nd set of winter tyres now (but the first set of winter tyres was coming from my previous 3-series, so it was a couple years older than the car, and has changed with some thread left as a precaution).

[simonome]

Can Not help you

I do dig German cars but mostly older ones I have a E30 vert which i freaking love


Mine in the Middle

Oh yeah by the way i would say Nay

 

I own a 1985 320i (crome bumpers) with 170.000 km on it and a 1988 316i (plastic bumpers) with 30.000 km.

Unbelievable how quick around turns the nimble yet underpowered 316i is.

[ponti_33609]

What do you include in that figure? Do you count value depretiation too?

On mine I spend way less for maintenance.
I have a service inspection any other year: with oil change every time, and filters etc any other servicin (so every 4 years). I guess it's less than 300 � in 2 years.
Then brakes every 100.000 km (400 � or less in 5 years, more or less).
It is quite easy on tyres too. I'm into my 2nd set of summer tyres and 2nd set of winter tyres now (but the first set of winter tyres was coming from my previous 3-series, so it was a couple years older than the car, and has changed with some thread left as a precaution).

Yes on depreciation.  That is part of your overall ownership.  We pay cash for vehicles so not factoring payments.  We paid $48K in 2013 and sold 2016 for $28K.  That is $20K over 40 months = ~$500.  Every Honda I ever owned was ~$200.  Things like engine seals which need to be replaced on these autos over time are quite costly.  BMW decided several years back to give free service for 4-years.  There was a reason for that.  Again, it was the funnest car I ever owned but they are quite expensive cost of ownership.

She still likes German cars.  Wonder how the depreciation on this one will work out for me? 

[simonome]

Yes on depreciation.  That is part of your overall ownership.  We pay cash for vehicles so not factoring payments.  We paid $48K in 2013 and sold 2016 for $28K.  That is $20K over 40 months = ~$500.  Every Honda I ever owned was ~$200.  Things like engine seals which need to be replaced on these autos over time are quite costly.  BMW decided several years back to give free service for 4-years.  There was a reason for that.  Again, it was the funnest car I ever owned but they are quite expensive cost of ownership.

Ok, in which case we're closer.
I've paid 27.900 € cash back in 2009. I've been offered 7.000 € on a trade-in in 20016. This makes 20.900 € in 7 years, or 248 €/month (266 USD)

That was the firs offer from a Ford dealer though, as at the time I was just playing with the idea of buying a Mustang. The guy didn't even see my car (mint condition) and we didn't even go on in negotiations, so I don't know what it could've been worth in real world.

[ponti_33609]

Ok, in which case we're closer.
I've paid 27.900 € cash back in 2009. I've been offered 7.000 € on a trade-in in 20016. This makes 20.900 € in 7 years, or 248 €/month (266 USD)

That was the firs offer from a Ford dealer though, as at the time I was just playing with the idea of buying a Mustang. The guy didn't even see my car (mint condition) and we didn't even go on in negotiations, so I don't know what it could've been worth in real world.

Sure but because you had it for this length of time you need to, in my opinion, add any repairs over the years.  Our maintenance was free.  I suspect you get closer to my number?

[simonome]

Sure but because you had it for this length of time you need to, in my opinion, add any repairs over the years.  Our maintenance was free.  I suspect you get closer to my number?

Yes, I've listed the repair costs in my previous post. I rekon it makes around 54 € (60 USD) per month (servicing + tyres).

This is of course for a 1-series, which is a couple "digits" and an "x" lower in BMW product range than your X3, so probably the depreciation is much more fierce.

Servicing bills will most probably go up over time, but tyres are interestingly enough going down. When new its tyres were quite a novelty: run on flat types, and I remember paying between 800 and 1000 € for a set.
Now they are on the low end of the size spectrum, so last time I think I've paid 500-600 € for the set.

My bottom line is anyway that I couldn't care less. For me a car is less "utility" and more "enjoyment".

I drive it as little as possible around town: I get my bikes or a car sharing service whenever possible, and I keep my car only for when I really enjoy my trip.

Therefore I couldn't care less if it depreciates, if it is expensive to service or uneconomical to drive. As long as it keeps me smiling, I'm fine with it.

This will be also true also for my BMW eventual replacement - which most probably will no longer be a bimmer.

[charlie b]

Ask Mike (known as mphcycles in here).  They did BMW car maintenance for many years.

[not-fishing]

I would do a google search for Bmw 328 problems and see what comes up in forums
I had a BMW Z4 for a while and got rid of it when I started getting estimates for upcoming work.
Then I got a Mini Cooper and got rid of that too, the Mini was really fun to drive but when I hear about
Carbon buildup on intake and walnut shell blasting I get worried. I have a Honda Fit now and it's fun
To drive without worry.
I also love VW GTIs but I have read a lot of stories about problems so I still haven't gotten one
Most people sell or trade German cars when the warranty runs out , that's why there are so many used ones around here for not much money

I had great luck with my used '74 Fiat X1/9 which I did most of the work on timing belts, cams, exhaust, valve adjustments, intake -wanted a snorkel but was to poor.

I also had great luck with my '79 Alfa Spider which Guido in a little shop did most the work on.  The Alfa Dealer was absolutely worthless.  sound familiar??

Right now I have Extreme Lust for a '74 Alfa Spider old enough - no bi-annual SMOG tests in California that I can Resto-mod.

I don't think I'll ever own another Deutsch car than my '72 Ghia that I bought new

I guess I should have taken Italian instead of all those years of German

Mark

[swooshdave]

Great googly mooglies ... NO!

No one would ever buy a Moto Guzzi again if all their information came from Guzzi forums.

Lannis

Very true.

We had an E39 wagon 540i that ate the timing chain guides at about 130k miles. I didn't have time to fix it myself so we ending up dumping it. Awesome car otherwise.

Looking to get an X5 now. Going to stay away from the V8 because they are still having problems with them.

[Groover]

I have an '03 540i M-Sport 6-speed Manual Black/Black that I have a love hate relationship going on with it. They only made 1265 of this particular model/trim series. I've had it since late 2007 and essentially it's been a workhorse. I park outside, drive it everyday, so it gets all the weather related issues on top of what the other issues are. It has around 145k miles on it.

The main problems on mine...

Leaky vapor barriers in the rear doors = wet floors in the back. Fixing that soon once I fix the window regulators again.
Leaky valley-pan gasket = means I need to add coolant once a month or so, or fix it for about 1K.
Door regulators break often. Not a difficult thing to fix, but tired of fixing them.
Coolant system is the weak spot on these cars, I've replaced the radiator once, expansion tank, etc. There are some good upgrades (aluminum radiator, etc.), but I'm just do bare minimum to keep it going.

Other issues, some sagging on the inside pillar liners. Some plastic pieces start to get brittle, I'd say starts happening after 10 years.
Needs some suspension work, but that's just wear and tear not a BMW thing necessarily. Overall, the way I haven't really manicured this car much, I can't complain too much. I plan on driving it until it just dies.

Holding my breath hoping nothing major goes wrong with it. Other that that, it's a cool-azz car.

[Muzz]

No comment about the car itself, but with our son's power steering and wheel alignment business that he owns we carry stocks of after market power steer pumps for two marques, BMW and Mercedes. They cannot be rebuilt. They appear to be the only ones that can't.

[Xlratr]

"I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole."

Even if "clean upholstery, and it ain't been ripped"?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[swooshdave]

I have an '03 540i M-Sport 6-speed Manual Black/Black that I have a love hate relationship going on with it. They only made 1265 of this particular model/trim series. I've had it since late 2007 and essentially it's been a workhorse. I park outside, drive it everyday, so it gets all the weather related issues on top of what the other issues are. It has around 145k miles on it.

The main problems on mine...

Leaky vapor barriers in the rear doors = wet floors in the back. Fixing that soon once I fix the window regulators again.
Leaky valley-pan gasket = means I need to add coolant once a month or so, or fix it for about 1K.
Door regulators break often. Not a difficult thing to fix, but tired of fixing them.
Coolant system is the weak spot on these cars, I've replaced the radiator once, expansion tank, etc. There are some good upgrades (aluminum radiator, etc.), but I'm just do bare minimum to keep it going.

Other issues, some sagging on the inside pillar liners. Some plastic pieces start to get brittle, I'd say starts happening after 10 years.
Needs some suspension work, but that's just wear and tear not a BMW thing necessarily. Overall, the way I haven't really manicured this car much, I can't complain too much. I plan on driving it until it just dies.

Holding my breath hoping nothing major goes wrong with it. Other that that, it's a cool-azz car.

The cooling systems on the V8s are still suspect. The plastic radiators are a joy along with the paper coolant pipes.






Those pipes run coolant to the back of the intake. And they leak... way back there...

That's why our next BMW will be an inline six.

[twhitaker]

I've been busy since I posted this and ran. I expected to find a few responses but WOW! Georges post convinced me to look away. My '99 Silverado has enough doodads that don't work. Fortunately the cruise and ABS do.

Thanks.