R.I.P. Robert M. Pirsig

[JJ]

Agreed that indiscriminate use of shock therapy is barbaric.  On the other hand, it's still used today, and can give a person who is unable to cope with life, and who has not been helped by other treatments, a chance to be relatively normal.  Now it's known as electroconvulsive therapy, ECT.

I still "cringe" when I visualize that scene from "One Flew Over The Cukoo's Nest" where they zapped poor Jack Nicholson!! 

What happened later on was even MORE barbaric - - the frontal lobotomy...just like what Joe Kennedy did to poor Rose...

[Gliderjohn]

Neither Zen or Ghost Rider are easy reads for most of us. That said, does not mean they are not worth reading. Zen is kind of like a religious text that can show different meanings and insights every time it is read.
Ghost Rider is much less abstract but a lot of emotions exposed and the "soul laid bare" style of writing is commendable. Having lost my first wife at middle age I can sort of relate but losing both wife and daughter in a short period of time is just unimaginable.
GliderJohn

[mrverveus]

Aside from some passionate discussions about motor oil, there have been 2 lengthy threads on this board that I have noticed.  One is the discussion on steel cut oats and the other on Pirsig's book, Zen.  Both have been interesting and entertaining threads to me (only on WildGuzzi can you find such great banter!).  Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance seems to work on many levels for the readers, like all great works of art.  I started the book in my 20s and finished it in my 40s.  It was a slow start but once I really got into it, I couldn't put it down.  The  book touches on some heavy duty intellectual ideas but also appealed to me as a motorcycle travelogue.  Overall, an epic(!!!) book and certainly one of the best reads I have come across to date. RIP Mr. Pirsig.

[oldbike54]

The book is more interesting once you know more of his life and what went on.  His mental illness and barbaric shock therapy, the beginning signs of mental illness in his son, and the son's tragic death, etc.

Like many good books, an accompanying text that fills in the gaps makes for a better understandings (at least for my limited mind).

 Seem to remember all of that is contained in the book , no need for accompanying texts. In fact at one point Chris asks him if he had really been crazy , and he tells him no .

 Dusty

[leroysch]

RIP Mr. Pirsig.

Thanks for the book.

[sign216]

Seem to remember all of that is contained in the book , no need for accompanying texts. In fact at one point Chris asks him if he had really been crazy , and he tells him no .

 Dusty

The book mentions some things, intinates at others, and doesn't tell you what happened in the future. 
This info helps you understand Pirsig, what he's feeling/saying.  There's a couple of books about this text.  Some are better than others, but all are helpful.

Of course there's also the approach that the book should be read and understood as  a stand-alone piece. 

[Trogladyte]

Amazing book,  Zen & the art, just amazing.

I bought it on my way home from school when I was 16, because it said motorcycle on the front, and I thought it might be bikey, rebellious and sexy. It sort of was some of those things, but not in the way I imagined. I absolutely loved it, and still do.

[GMies]

RIP Robert M. Pirsig.      I've read about 25 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4Wg_2gkNBQ

[Chuck in Indiana]

RIP Robert M. Pirsig.      I've read about 25 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4Wg_2gkNBQ

Welcome to WG.. 

[GMies]

Welcome to WG.. 

Thanks Chuck! I have read many years. This forum is the greatest!

[Bill N]

Believe it or not Zen was required reading for an astronomy course I attended. The professor never convinced me of the connection. Like others I found it ponderous but a few sections were profound for me and it was worth the read.
Bill

[Tkelly]

I was inspired to take the same route in 1977 and again in 2003 with my 13 yo son onthe back of my 1100 cal.We barely got all our camping gear etc on that bike.Pirsig had all the stuff plus cooking gear!

[perter]

I read it when I was 20 and didn't like it.
Read it again at 50, and now knew what he was saying.

It is deserving of all the accolades.

I started reading it when I was 17 because I wanted to know about motorcycle maintenance and borrowed it at the library... lasted the first chapter.

Second attempt was in my early 30'ies when I met my later to be wife, it was an old book on her Mother's bookshelf and I thought it would be cool to read it... I lasted about 1/3 until the section where the author's other self comes to life

3rd attempt was last year when I was 48, I was on a trip to Sweden and sitting at night reading it (my now long-time passed Mother in-Law's book) alone in a small cottage in the rural forests with wife, 4 kids (and a Guzzi) finally made me mature enough to get all the way through.

It's a crazy book but if you're in the right mood it really talks to you. And the description of his concern with modern society and the disconnection between people and reality could have been written yesterday... in fact i's 40yrs ago. Scary and fascinating at the same time and a lot of the "theory" about what makes a good and a bad mechanics seems logic to me and in many ways what I've discovered myself over the years too.

I think it's a new book every time you pick it up any you may read it 20 times and still get something new out of it every time.

BTW, the Danish book has a kind of a T3 Guzzi on the main page, I think that was one of the reasons my 17yr old younger me picked it first time? At least I remember the disappointment discovering he was riding a Honda and not one of the nice Italian V2's when I read it first time.





One of my "to do things" is to follow in Robert and Chris' path one day... taking the trip as close as possible https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1fZYIR0GFhBtVC_YxgvZk9pwg93A&hl=en_US&ll=42.558245684029636%2C-108.48973699999999&z=5

[leroysch]

Picked it up again as a result of this thread. Over half way thru it....

Seems a lot more coherent now than it did to me 40 years ago.

Hmmmm...........

[Kiwi_Roy]

I read it every few years, each time I get a little more out of it.
That's one book I won't give away.

[Clancy]

I've bought it twice.
I've read it twice.
I've leant it out twice.
I've never got it back twice.
Might be time for a third one....

[sidecarnutz]

I've bought it twice.
I've read it twice.
I've leant it out twice.
I've never got it back twice.
Might be time for a third one....

Same thing happened to me. Need a third copy!

[drdwb]

Got my Yamaha XS 750 Special  new in 79, Read Zen during college spring break in 80 to learn more about Fixing my own bike, ended up planning and taking a couple week ride out to the Rockies with my wife on back just to see what this touring stuff and getting in touch with that inner beast was all about. I attribute part of our 40 years of continued touring and doing all the work on all of our bikes to the Zens influence. One of the most important points I learned, “ stay away from shops where the mechanics are zipper heads blasting out mind numbing tunes “.
RIP Mr.Robert

[H-E-ROSS]

After reading of Mr Pirsig's passing this spring I walked over to the bookshelf to get the copy of the book I had put aside many years ago. To my surprise it was nowhere to be found. My paperbound copy had been a fixture for so long with the other books I meant to get back to... That day, I went to the used book shop and bought a nice, clean, hardbound, 25th anniversary edition (1999 ) for three bucks!
The reading was much easier, 40 years after my first attempt. I finished it in less than a week. It's definitely worth reading and will remain with the books I intend to read again.

[oldbike54]

 Pirsig's Honda is headed to the Smithsonian .

 Dusty

[radguzzi]

Pirsig's Honda is headed to the Smithsonian .

 Dusty

That is awesome.   People that did not know will ask who he was, he will live on.

Rob

[RinkRat II]

      Thanks for that Dusty, now I have an excuse to go back to the Smithsonian 

            https://www.si.edu/newsdesk/releases/zen-motorcycle-takes-final-journey-smithsonians-collections

   Paul B

[pressureangle]

I've read 'Zen' about 8 times, given it as a gift more times than that.

Read 'Lila' 3 or 4 times as well.

If you have any interest in philosophy and self-examination, it's required reading.

[philwarner]

I remember somewhere in the book he talked about "value rigidity"because he was cutting a beer can to use as a shim on his riding partners bike and his partner was appalled that he would even consider using non standard material on his BMW even though it was the perfect fix on the road.I thought at the time(at least 35 years ago) it was an intense study of the very nature of human reasoning.I have my old copy right here and will start reading tonight.

Been awhile since I read it but what stuck in my mind was his changing the Honda Super Hawk's oil by draining it on the ground in a parking lot.  My how bikes and times have changed.  A challenging read of his personal story. 

[Kiwi_Roy]

Been awhile since I read it but what stuck in my mind was his changing the Honda Super Hawk's oil by draining it on the ground in a parking lot.  My how bikes and times have changed.  A challenging read of his personal story.

The bacteria in the ground thrive on oil, a source of carbon.

[philwarner]

The bacteria in the ground thrive on oil, a source of carbon.

Well OK Then.  My 96 Land Rover Discovery, celebrating 50 years of putting oil back in the ground, is a good thing.  As are most older Harleys. 

[severely]

I read it as a young man and it helped me to understand MY reality and everyone else' reality isn't the same. Transferred this newfound knowledge to my job and found out satisfying the perception of others beat trying to force MY satisfaction on others. Made life/work a lot more bearable. RIP 

[wirespokes]

Like giving a person drugs who's crazy, I never understood how poking ice picks into a person's brains or frying his frontal lobes helps in any way. I guess turning someone into a vegetable makes them look less threatening or awful. Walking dead.

[Texas Turnip]

Tough crowd here. I tried read Zen 3 or 4 times. Waaay over my head just like some modern art when a docent has to tell me that it is "whatever". No, when I look at a painting my eyes can tell if it is a horse.

Tex

[blackcat]

Way better book IMO.