V7 Special. Kickstand spring.

[Toecutter]

Which of the two springs is responsible for keeping the kickstand "up"?

The smaller, inner spring?

or the larger, outer spring?

I'm scratching my head. Last fall's ride to the coast saw my kickstand falling, constantly. Used a bungie to keep it up.

Replaced the entire spring assembly with new parts upon getting home.

Kickstand still falling. Not all the way, but noticeably so.

[sign216]

This is a common problem.   The usual fix is a replacement spring, 3.3 in (83mm) long.  Riders usually get springs from Moose Racing, exhaust spring no. M7712.  Guzziology has more details. 

Alternatively, bend the factory spring to get more pull.  Take the factory spring and bend a new hook in the end.  This shortens it and adds tension.  Do this by taking it off, heating the end with a torch, and bending.  Don’t let the coils heat up, as this removes their temper.

Joe

[Toecutter]

Which spring, though?

The little inner one? Or the beefier outer one?

[Kev m]

Which spring, though?

The little inner one? Or the beefier outer one?

What other purpose would either one have but to hold up the stand?

I would do both if it's a problem, but maybe start with the beefier one and see if that fixes it.

[Toecutter]

I understood that one holds it "up" when riding, while the other provides the tensio/holds it "forward" when you put it down.

[malik]

I don't know which spring does what, but I shall play around with them over the next few days.

The stand on the V7C has just started falling down again after replacing the springs & pivot bolt 46,000 km ago. The stand on that bike returns softly & stays mushy & loose when retracted, unlike that on the V7S which is firm. The V7C's original inner spring was badly scored & the pivot bolt was grooved. The hole in the bracket on the bottom frame rail that the stand bolts to is ovalled, so it probably won't work properly until that is rectified. Perhaps also the jaws of the stand are flared minutely as well. Hard to tell for sure. I'm hoping the new springs & bolt will work for the run to the Budgie; it's a pain to foot check the sidestand before each left hand bend. BTW to get the pivot bolt off, the headers need to be loosened off enough to remove the nut. 17mm for the nut & 13mm for the head of the pivot bolt.

[Kev m]

I understood that one holds it "up" when riding, while the other provides the tensio/holds it "forward" when you put it down.

<shrugs> Don't they attach to the same points? How would that magic work?

Someone is going to have to explain that one to me. But it wouldn't be the first time I needed to learn.

[Toecutter]

Could be... but then why would they use two springs when one would do?

[Kev m]

Could be... but then why would they use two springs when one would do?

Safety net if one fails?   (SWAG).

Or you're right... 

[jas67]

It's the sum total of the force of the two springs that safely hold the side stand up.
I can testify from experience that if one comes off, it will drop, at least low enough for the safety switch to kill the engine -- happened to me last year on a trip with Kev (on PA309).

I've never had one drop with both springs still attached though.   Sounds like one or both is weak.

The stock springs on both my V7's (and the 2009 V7C I previously had) were always adequate to hold the stand up (provided they were still attached).

[TimmyTheHog]

Okay, unless someone else actually ran the number and measured the the springs coil sizes & knows material call out, this is what I got IN THEORY:

*engineering hat on*

Spring Force is linear and calculate with F = n.k.X

Since the distance of the kickstand travel value is fixed (X), you can increase the total F by having a stronger and thicker spring (k goes up) and/or having more springs in parallel (n goes up)

So long story short, I suspect Guzzi engineers set up the two springs by having the beefier one with the smaller one to achieve the total force required to keep the kick stand up.

Why don't they just one spring? I suspect the spring might be too stiff & too big at that point for someone to handle properly??? This is my guess without actually going thru the number.

and I believe it is in the similar situation with center stand by looking at it as well.

*engineering hat off*

Okay, this is way too much engineering for my liking for a hobby...I like to forget about engineering off work...LOL

[M0T0Geezer]

My 2004 Breva 750 began to self-kill just a month or so ago, after almost 50,000 miles. 

While underway, turned out the sidestand was going flaccid with resulting "safety" kill of engine from the sidestand sensor switch.

The problem was that the sidestand pivot joint had worn elliptical and become very bindy from caked dirt & oil.  As the bike traveled along the sidestand would gradually bounce lower (but never higher).  At some point the engine would die, always unexpected, always inconvenient.

Copious amounts of WD-40 on the pivot reduced the "up" resistance and solved the self-kill problem.

Eventually I'll have to replace those pesky springs.

'Geezer