V7 Classic, V7I, or V7II?

[bpreynolds]

Hello good people.  Hope you are all enjoying a mighty late Spring/Early Summer.  As some few of you know, I've been without a Guzzi now for going on a year and a half or so.  While my KTM 950 is a bonified sweetheart in my dirt bikes for the street club, and has in fact served me well for nearly 12k miles in these last 9 months even, I miss a Guzzi and will be adding one back to the garage eventually to sit beside the KTM.  My previous '15 Stone was one of the best bikes I've ever owned and vies back and forth in my mind with the KTM for all-time fav.  It wasn't perfect, but no bike is.  I thought the rear shocks could have been slightly better, and the brakes spooked me on several occasions - this latter due less to the bike than me riding it in a manner that was probably unsafe for the type of bike it is.  Even still, ABS "may" be a preferred option for me depending unless I can trust myself to reign in my throttle hand and/or figure out some way to upgrade brakes a small bit though I'm having a tough time figuring out how that would help much if I can't tone it down.  Don't take these slight qualms as real complaints - as stated, one of if not maybe the best most fav bike I've ever owned.

So anyway.  I would like a V7 back in the garage but I teeter from old to new.  I still love the aesthetics of the V7 Classic.  Simple.  Gorgeous.  As stated, I love my former '15 Stone and especialy its lightweight tubeless tires.  A VII would be wonderful but I dunno if I can stretch the dollar right now to get it but I might.  The Classics are shamefully cheap almost but have the older motor.  Newer motor worth it?  Dunno.

If you had to do it all over again or for the first time, what would you buy and why?  Maybe there's something I'm overlooking. 

[Kev m]

Screw it, I'd get either the V7 I or the III (yeah, I know, not a choice).

The I knowing I'll likely replace the regulator, but also knowing I've got the higher output charging system and a front cover that conveniently comes off when setting valves.

I'd skip the II because I don't think the 6-spd and abs alone are worth it. Not to mention with my luck I'd find one with the missing crankshaft thrust washer.

III because I like the looks and hemi heads and think THAT plus the abs would be worth the hassle of the wet alternator.

But that's my unique perspective.

And that said my V7I isn't going anywhere.

[sib]

To respectfully disagree with Kev m, I sold my '13 V7 Stone and got my current '16 V7II Stone because I think the ABS, 6-sp, and roomier ergos make a significant difference.  I'm not interested in going from my V7II to a V7III because I don't think the hemi heads make a significant difference.  As far as I can determine, the switch from Heron to hemi heads was done mainly to satisfy the stricter Euro4 emission standards, and not to add power.  In addition, the V7IIIs weigh more than the V7IIs, and the V7III Stone doesn't have a tach.  Just another viewpoint.

[Kev m]

It's all based on your priorities so I totally see where someone would come up with different results. That's probably why I explained mine.

That said I thought I'd already read reports saying the hemi heads (I think done for power also) on the III make for a motor that feels noticeably stronger.

Either way TO ME that, with the cosmetic changes plus the ABS etc. add up to a bigger difference than just the changes from the I to the II.

[pyoungbl]

When you balance benefits/cost I think the V7 I is your best bet.  The single throttle body eliminates any balance issues, dry alternator makes it super easy to rotate the crank when adjusting the valves, Heron head = dead simple valve adjustment, and the 2013 model is now 4 years old so you can get a screaming deal on a low mileage model.  That also means that the previous owner has probably sprung for some mods you might want.

Shameless plug, my 2013 is for sale with HB bags, upgraded suspension, upgraded seat, Gustafsson windscreen, and about 7500 miles.  $4500 and she is yours!

Peter Y.

[bad Chad]

V7lll. Throttle balance is hardly an issue do to how infrequently it needs doing. You certainly should get abs, and why not get the new motor with more juice?  And too boot it looks brilliant in blue!o

[Kev m]

V7lll. Throttle balance is hardly an issue do to how infrequently it needs doing. You certainly should get abs, and why not get the new motor with more juice?  And too boot it looks brilliant in blue!o

Nah it's not about the infrequency so much as the lack of unnecessary linkage and components. Though NEVER having to worry about it is nice.

[bpreynolds]

Love the replies.  All good points and the vast majority of them I had not even thought about myself.  For me personally, I think the new blue striped VIII Special is one of the most gorgeous motorcycles out there period.  Guzzi just nailed it with that bike, I think.  But.  I can't stretch for it right now as per dollars.

[malik]

Especially if cost is an issue, I'd go with the 2TB. If you can put up the air filter access. You would then have more to spend on suspension (if not done)  and brakes. If you get a Racer, it's likely to have the metal tank (21L is not to be sneezed at). And if you don't like the colour, paint it or cover it. The lower idling engine MAY encourage you to tone it down (but doubtful). Unless you picked up some stone wheels, or went aftermarket (like Kineo) you wouldn't  get tubeless. You don't get 6 speeds or ABS either, (I've never had them, so don't miss them) but think of the money saved that can be spent elsewhere (die-hard guzzi content). Having both the 2TB & the 2014, it seems I still prefer riding the older one.

It doesn't really matter which one you get - they're all magic - go with the best bargain, the one that strikes you most. You know what to look for. There was this new V7II Racer with the two tone grey tank going cheap not long ago that was tempting. It seems the V9s are proving harder to move, & have been heavily discounted over here.

Mal

[Kev m]

I'm not really sure that a 2TB (V7C or especially a Racer) would save you much money over a V7 I, especially a Stone.

But now that it's been brought up - IF you go for a 2TB, DEFINITELY wait for a 2012 model with the 5.8L METAL tank.

[sib]

When the 1TB models first came out, MG claimed that their engines have some large fraction of new "improved" components over the previous 2TB engines.  Perhaps someone with more hands-on experience with the innards of these engines (like Pete R) might be able to comment on this and tell us what these "improvements" are, and whether they make a difference.

[Kev m]

When the 1TB models first came out, MG claimed that their engines have some large fraction of new "improved" components over the previous 2TB engines.  Perhaps someone with more hands-on experience with the innards of these engines (like Pete R) might be able to comment on this and tell us what these "improvements" are, and whether they make a difference.

I do recall that, though I don't recall the numbers.

I checked the dealer new product guide PDF and this is all I could find:

Detailed description of the new engine components:
 new intake system, new headers, new single throttle body and new filter box;
 new ECU for electronic engine management;
 introduction of double lambda probe;
 new cylinders;
 new high efficiency pistons and optimised combustion chamber;
 new cylinder and head cover shapes with built in spark plug and cable cover;
 new gearbox selector

To me maybe the biggest thing is they seemed to have licked the mystery oil consumption problems that effected some V7C models.

When riding Jay's V7C and my Stone back-to-back we both noted differences in overall feel. The Stone seemed to make more torque and be more at home at a few hundred less rpm for a given road speed.

BUT the overall feel of the stone changed some 10k+ miles later so I can't be sure what that test would feel like now.

[roadscum]

I so confused... when was the 1TB introduced and does it continue in the 2017 models??

Paul

[Kev m]

I so confused... when was the 1TB introduced and does it continue in the 2017 models??

Paul

1TB = One Throttle Body models.

The older smallblock models Nevada 750/Breva 750 and V7 variants (V7 Classic, V7 Cafe, V7 Racer) through 2011 in the EU and 2012 in the US used dual throttle bodies.

Starting with the V7 Stone/Special/Racer in 2012 for the EU and 2013 for the US Guzzi switched to a single throttle body.

That came with a slew of other changes including pistons, cylinders, valve covers, and other engine/fuel system components.

The earlier 2TB models all had a plastic fuel tank, except that final year of 2012 for the US (and possibly some other markets) that got the new larger metal tanks that the Stone/Special/Racer get.

All smallblock models since the introduction of the 1TB have remained 1TB but in various phases. V7 (first generation, now being called Mark I or V7I by some) which confusingly used a dry alternator for all years except the last.

V7 II - saw the introduction of ABS/TC, a 6-spd, slightly revised ergonomics

V7 III - sees the introduction of the hemi heads (instead of the heron heads used up till then) and some other engine and bodywork changes.

Even more confused now?

[chuck peterson]

I'd suggest the nearest cheapest one that makes you give up looking...

[jas67]

Screw it, I'd get either the V7 I or the III (yeah, I know, not a choice).

The I knowing I'll likely replace the regulator, but also knowing I've got the higher output charging system and a front cover that conveniently comes off when setting valves.

I'd skip the II because I don't think the 6-spd and abs alone are worth it. Not to mention with my luck I'd find one with the missing crankshaft thrust washer.

III because I like the looks and hemi heads and think THAT plus the abs would be worth the hassle of the wet alternator.

But that's my unique perspective.

And that said my V7I isn't going anywhere.

Not unique.

I concur.

[roadscum]

1TB = One Throttle Body models.

.........
....
.

Even more confused now?

Thanks for  the comprehensive answer Kev, it was very helpful/

I'm no more confused then usual, I seem to reside in that state!!!!

Paul

[SmithSwede]

Here is a data point.  Utterly unscientific, curmudgeonly, and opinionated.

I'd get a single throttle body V7.   I have a 2013 Stone--it's my all-time favorite bike.  I ride it virtually every day.   

The single TB eliminates need to synch.   Metal tank. It's has better access to air filter.  And most importantly, there was some change to the pistons, rings, or gronkulator that eliminated the nasty habit of some older small blocks to suddenly eliminate their oil supply. 

I've run my '13 for 53,000 plus miles---and it works for a living.  Oil consumption is not an issue.

You don't want a hemi head.   Why disrespect the engineering genius of Samuel D. Heron?   Everyone and their grandmother has a hemi head.  Just about nobody runs a Heron head.    Think of the superior swirl and squish area.    The elegance of a totally flat head.

You don't need a stinking 6 speed.  The old 5 speed is brilliant.   Perfectly spaced and real world useable ratios.

You don't need ABS and traction control.  Just more expensive, new-fangaled stuff to break later for mega $$$. 

Finally, the stock Guzzi brakes are FF ratesd.  You could easily get HH sinstered pads. On the other hand, there is a charm in the excellent feel of old school organic FF pads.  Just develop a respectfully strong grip in your right hand, and you can make the front tire howl and chirp like the pros.

Note that I've never ridden a more "modern" V7.   Just giving you my ill-founded but passionately held opinions.

[Bob Wegman]

I really like my V7Classic.  It has the plastic tank that hasn't caused any problem no matter what fuel I put in it and it won't rust.  That being said a metal tank model would be fine with me also (especially that red and white one).  I only have about 13,000 miles on my Classic now which includes several 350 to 600mile trips.  All have been a joy.  I only have a few additions on it, Hepco becker hard cases 30 and 40 litres, which I swap between my EV.  The Guzzi tank bag for my EV also bolts in and works fine.  I would definitely get another V7 of any year if this one was out of my life.  I may get another one just to have a spare. 

[fossil]

Any STB. If it is in your ballpark a V7 III. In comparison to my V7 I Stone (which I love!) the V7 III is the significantly better bike. The engine is really powerful, the gearbox is good, and the roadholding is much improved. It even works with the appallingly bad Sport Demons. And the Special looks gorgeous!

[ponti_33609]

Wasn't it said somewhere that the V7III weighed ~50 pounds more than the V7 or V7II?  Depending on your needs factor this in.  For me I need/prefer a lower weight bike.

[Kev m]

Wasn't it said somewhere that the V7III weighed ~50 pounds more than the V7 or V7II?  Depending on your needs factor this in.  For me I need/prefer a lower weight bike.

Only if you are using bad numbers for comparison. Maybe there was a mistake on a website or spec sheet but when I checked there was no significant difference.

[Kev m]

Ah here it is, from a discussion on Guzzitech:

Actually I think that's an error. The 1TB V7 (Mki?) was around 450# wet and not near 417# (unless that's dry) so I'm guessing the Mkii spec given above is DRY weight.

EDIT-Yeah looking at Google a lot of reviews just parrot whatever the factory listed for weight and I think they got it wrong based on my recollection of the measured weight of the Mki and this motorcycle.com article that claims the Mkii MEASURED wet weight was 454# with specifically 35# of fuel:

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/moto-guzzi/2016-moto-guzzi-v7-ii-stone-review.html

So it looks like 454# for the Mki vs 461# for the MKiii or the extra steel on the MKiii makes it only 7# heavier.

Todd then added corrected figures for the Mkii and MKiii:

V7 II Specs:
Wet weight: 458 pounds
Seat height: 30.7 inches
Wheelbase: 57.0 inches
Rake: 27.5 degrees
Trail: 4.6 inches

V7 III Specs:
Claimed wet weight: 461 lbs (470 lbs Special and Anniversario)
Seat height: 30.3 inches
Wheelbase: 57.6 inches
Rake: 26.4 degrees
Trail: 4.2 inches

[fossil]

Ahh - I�ve found it! I wondered why the V7 III rode so much better than the former models. They use a new frame (based on that of the V9) and altered the geometry. It was reported in several magazines here in Germany.

[bpreynolds]

Wow.  You guys, especially Kev, have provided way more info here than I ever imagined this thread would get.  Thanks a bunch.  My personal biggest concerns over which model now seem mostly trivial.  When I test rode an early '13 V7 Special it seemed slightly busier at highway speeds than my later '15 Stone I bought new which I thought was one of the nicest, smoothest engines/bikes I've ever had when parked at 75 or even 80 on the highway.  I think, from what is present here (but I get a little confused), those two engines are the same and so much can factor into that observation to make it nil even.  The Stone felt lighter than the Special and I suppose that could owe somewhat to the rims maybe, but there were times where I wouldn't have actually minded the slight bit of added weight with spoke wheels.  I like tubeless tires but nearly all of my bikes prior to 2012 or so had tubes so it's no big issue for me per se.  I agree, can't go wrong with any of them mostly.  Shoot, as I said in my initial post, I even think the V7 Classic is just plain gorgeous.  I'm 5'9" and about 150lbs with 32 inch inseam.  My Stone seemed to fit me pretty well and I did several 400 mile days and a couple 1k mile tours on it with the help of an Airhawk.  I will say that Peter's bike mentioned here earlier is big consideration for me as he already has a lot of fantastic accessories on it.  We'll see.  Still thinking.  Having a contractor come out to the house this week to see about installing a long needed vent in the kitchen.  If his estimate doesn't hit too hard, might be pulling the trigger in the next week or so on a V7 somewhere/somehow. 

[Kev m]

Well, good luck and have fun with whatever you decide. Obviously I don't really think there's a bad choice.

FWIW - the 13 and 15 engines should be the same, with the exception of the slightly lower output wet alternator on the 15.

Weight of the Stone and Special are essentially the same, and I believe MG said the new spoke wheels were lightweight as well so I don't THINK that's what you felt.

Of course the differences you felt could be as simple as different preloads on the springs making for slightly different saddle heights/perceptions and the engine differences could be as simple as number of miles.

I remember my 13 felt like is was fighting through friction or being held back in some way for the first few thousand miles. Comparatively Jay's V7C, then at maybe 10k miles, felt as loose as a street walker. But now years and thousands of miles later my V7 no longer feels like something is holding it back and feels better on the highway than it did before (though I still think that's not where she shines the most).

[twowings]

V7lll. Throttle balance is hardly an issue do to how infrequently it needs doing. You certainly should get abs, and why not get the new motor with more juice?  And too boot it looks brilliant in blue!o

Amen...if I was buying, that would be the one!

[sign216]

You don't want a hemi head.   Why disrespect the engineering genius of Samuel D. Heron?   Everyone and their grandmother has a hemi head.  Just about nobody runs a Heron head.    Think of the superior swirl and squish area.    The elegance of a totally flat head.

SmithSwede,

I agree 100% on the Heron head.  I think the V7 was the last vehicle in the world to stick with it.   

Engines are switching to hemi heads only because emission and fuel regs are forcing their way.  That, and magazine right-ups have people looking at red-line performance instead of mid-range, where real riding happens.

Joe 

[Kev m]

SmithSwede,

I agree 100% on the Heron head.  I think the V7 was the last vehicle in the world to stick with it.   

Engines are switching to hemi heads only because emission and fuel regs are forcing their way.  That, and magazine right-ups have people looking at red-line performance instead of mid-range, where real riding happens.

Joe

"Only" because of emissions or fuel regs?

Funny but those who have ridden the V9 or V7 III seem to say there's a not insignificant feel of a power and seemingly no loss of efficiency.

Be a heron head fan boy all you want but there's also a reason the smallblock was the last...

[SmithSwede]

Again, I have not ridden a more modern "hemi head" V7. 

But my hunch is prople comparing power differences between various iterations of 750cc small blocks is, well . . .

Like various grades of privates debating who has the higher military rank.