Swiss/Italian Alpine pass advice

[SED]

Thought I'd ask here because there are so many well-traveled members from all over the world.

I may have an opportunity to do a one day loop ride from Mandello Del Lario and can probably pull off two Alpine passes, but not 3.   

The first 2 routes are about the same length, miles and time, but which is more interesting?
Spluga and Albula passes?




Or Julier and Albula passes?




Or Spluga and Julier for about 1 hour less time?




Also, clockwise or counter-clockwise?

Thank you!
Shawn

[pauldaytona]

the first one. counterclockwise. The julier is made wide, less turns as before. The swiss have made a few passes better for traffic. And so less entertaining.

[Huzo]

Around there, you just can't go wrong.

[Tom]

You really can't go wrong.  As Paul suggests is a good route.  Stelvio?  More fun hanging it out in the Dolomites then going into Switzerland.  The Carabinieri is more forgiving than the Swiss PD.

[Dukedesmo]

Quote from: Tom on Today at 09:47:16 AM

You really can't go wrong.  As Paul suggests is a good route.  Stelvio?  More fun hanging it out in the Dolomites then going into Switzerland.  The Carabinieri is more forgiving than the Swiss PD.

>

Absolutely, unless you are going to ride like a saint.   

You do not want to get caught speeding in Switzerland...

[pauldaytona]

http://www.speedingeurope.com/switzerland/

 I've never seen police in mountain area, but read that they were going to change that.

[roadscum]

the first one. counterclockwise. The julier is made wide, less turns as before. The swiss have made a few passes better for traffic. And so less entertaining.

+ 1, that would be my choice but jeeeezzzzz, any of those routes sure beats my day rides in Florida!!
When on Spluga  it's a must to stop for me at Hotel Vittoria in Montespluga for a cappuccino and some fresh baked strudel. The place isn't much to look at but inside is a very cozy and charming café.

If at all possible make time to ride Stelvio and have a brat and a beer at the summit.

What ever you decide, have fun and enjoy the ride, and report back afterward.

Paul

[Tusayan]

I'd do number 2 and skip Splugen especially if the weather is wet.  Splugen is particularly tight and challenging (not a bad thing) but has substantial car traffic and can be treacherous in the wet, hairpins in tunnels with water flowing through them.   A friend fell off there a couple of weeks ago.  Also don't forget to consider Fluela pass - there are three good passes leaving that valley (Julier, Albula, Fluela) plus Maloja to get up there from Chiavenna.  It will be a long day regardless.

If you do Splugen, I'd recommend doing it uphill in the morning.   

Be careful on your route from Mandello to Chiavenna, if you take the wrong road it can soak up a lot of time dealing with lakeshore traffic.

Have fun!

PS the typical Swiss speed enforcement technique is speed cameras at the entrance to villages or in tunnels. If you see a burst of flashing lights for no particular reason,  you'll know why.  You'll get the ticket if you have EU or Swiss registration, even on rental bike, and if you want to go back to Switzerland you'll have to pay.  Otherwise they'll very possibly find you some day, at airport immigration or crossing the border when checking documents.

[SED]

Wow, you guys are a wealth of information! 

Thanks for all the insights on the passes and routes.

The Swiss speeding laws do worry me though. We don't have traffic cameras and the cops here usually give 10 mph leeway for anything over about 50mph.

Looks like Swiss speed over the passes is 49mph according to http://www.speedingeurope.com/switzerland/

Thanks for the info - got to run to work!  Back later.

Shawn

BTW, don't know if it matters, but this would be a mid-week trip.

[Daniel Kalal]

of the three, I'd recommend the 1st one, clockwise.  The Italy side of Spluga is probably best done going uphill.  Spluga can be a real challenge (it tops the list of the ones you've listed); I'd prefer to take that challenge going up than down.  Of course, they're all fine (as are the other routes in the area).  It might come down to the time you've got and the traffic (which can add a great deal of time if you are unlucky).

[SED]

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. Given the scenery and the distance to Stelvio, I'm thinking (hoping) that I can keep my wrist out of it in Switzerland.

Daniel and Tusayan really recommend going uphill on the Spluga so I'm thinking of going Clockwise.  Daytona Paul, what's the advantage of going counterclockwise?

Amazing wealth of knowledge on WildGuzzi!

Shawn

[Tom H]

Heck this is a good read even though I don't plan to get over there anytime soon. Had fun back in the '70's when I was a teen and my parents took me to a few countries in Europe. Would like to go back one day!

Have fun on your trip!!!!
Tom

[azguzzirep]

upload for facebook


Lots of hairpin curves. Going down the other side towards Italy is also difficult but I did it😀. Be sure to keep your eyes on the road and not the scenery or you'll drive right if a 1000ft cliff.

I rode up the pass on a loaded EV. I wouldn't recommend doing it two up or on a Goldwing. The curves are tight and if someone is coming the other way in the curve they'll probably be on your side of the road.

[pauldaytona]

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. Given the scenery and the distance to Stelvio, I'm thinking (hoping) that I can keep my wrist out of it in Switzerland.

Daniel and Tusayan really recommend going uphill on the Spluga so I'm thinking of going Clockwise.  Daytona Paul, what's the advantage of going counterclockwise?

Amazing wealth of knowledge on WildGuzzi!

Shawn

 I like that on the Splugen, from the border, you go down and have a look over the valley, you are going in deeper and deeper, with some short hairpins in it.

[roadscum]

I like that on the Splugen, from the border, you go down and have a look over the valley, you are going in deeper and deeper, with some short hairpins in it.

I to prefer the down hill view as well as the  downhill ride. I like to be on the open side of the road, not the side up against the mountain. That position also afford me the opportunity to pull over to the shoulder and enjoy the valley view without having to dismount.

Which ever way you choose, you'll enjoy the trip and that's all that really matters. 

Paul

[Bill Hagan]

First, it'll be hard to have a bad time there wherever you ride or whatever you do.  Possible, I suppose, if you get behind a convoy of lumbering RV's, etc., but you'll mostly have a great time and memories for a lifetime.

Now, however, I will be a bit of a contrarian.

While (and probably because) I have BTDT -- on m/c, cage, and (gasp; no really  tho only once on a modest one) bicycle, I simply do not understand the lure of mountain passes, especially the "Big Name" ones in Italy, Switzerland, and Austria.

Yes, many of the lower approaches provide grand sweepers and the views at the tops and on descents are often stupendous.  But the almost singsong quality of the seemingly never-ending and, IMO, often dangerous hairpins on the ups and downs make those, for me, routes to avoid, not seek.

The Dolomites, in particular provide "valley roads" that provide technical riding challenges and breathtaking scenery (to the extent one can see that while screamining in one's helmet  ) without the unfun monotony of switchbacks. 

Obviously, not everyone agrees; vive la différence.   

Recommend you consider taking a look at some Daniel Kalal's pix and commentaries of his tours in alpine Europe, e.g., http://www.dankalal.net/2006trip13/trip.html

Have a great time ... and post a photo-laden trip report on return.

Bill
 

[pauldaytona]

You can view all upfront in google maps /streetview or earth.

Bill he asked for these roads, not what is best in Dolomites.

[Bill Hagan]

You can view all upfront in google maps /streetview or earth.

Bill he asked for these roads, not what is best in Dolomites.

You are right, of course, Paul.

OTOH, I did not charge him for my counsel.   

Seriously, given the (relatively) short distances at play, and that he was basing out of Mandello, wasn't sure he was committed to those, but was making more of a general inquiry.

Limited to those, however, I remain a contrarian, i.e., think they suck green eggs. 

Best,

Bill

[pauldaytona]

A nice daytrip from mandello is nearer:

Lecco, ballabio, moggio, san giovanni bianco, olmo al brembo, San Marco Pas, Morbegno, and return to mandello

[danomar]

If you can get over to Switzerland, near Mendrisio is Monte Generoso, worth a ride up and perhaps back down. It is used for a vintage hillclimb each year. Serious twisties.

I would also recommend the Furka Pass in Switzerland, but that is going off in a completely different direction from where you want to end up, I reckon.

[Daniel Kalal]

...I like to be on the open side of the road, not the side up against the mountain...

Not to worry; the many hairpin turns means you'll have plenty of opportunities to ride both directions along the mountain-side and to fly off over the edge if you do it wrong.

A nice daytrip from mandello is nearer:  Lecco, ballabio, moggio, san giovanni bianco, olmo al brembo, San Marco Pas, Morbegno, and return to mandello

I'm glad you mentioned that option, Paul.  There are some serious gorgeous roads on the back-side of Mandello that don’t get near the traffic as the routes mentioned, and you won’t need to worry about busses.  San Marco Pass is a good ride (and perhaps more to the liking of swoopy riders).

[Tom]

One question that I have since this thread was posted.  Do you have to go to Switzerland?  Wanna get a pass sticker?  If you haven't run up Stelvio.  Consider that.  It's not that far away from Mandello.  You could loop that direction.

[SED]

Thanks for the advice and comments.

Seriously, given the (relatively) short distances at play, and that he was basing out of Mandello, wasn't sure he was committed to those, but was making more of a general inquiry.

Bill, you are right, I'm not committed and it's a one day trip. Mostly I like passes because they are the best roads near where I live and I love the elevation changes and views. Also like to be away from the cities.

A nice daytrip from mandello is nearer:
Lecco, ballabio, moggio, san giovanni bianco, olmo al brembo, San Marco Pas, Morbegno, and return to mandello

Paul. I'm going to punch that into google earth now!

Thanks!
Shawn

[SED]

Here's the San Marco Pass loop, with an extra bit of mountain road from Dervio to Balisio.  Anyone know if the Dervio to Balisio route is worth it? Too much traffic?





Amazing how slow the travel speeds are - from 20-30 mph average!  (Google calculates 50 mph for the pass I normally ride.)  Are these averages due to speed limits, traffic or road conditions?  I'm guessing road conditions.

Thanks,
Shawn

[Tusayan]

Amazing how slow the travel speeds are - from 20-30 mph average!  (Google calculates 50 mph for the pass I normally ride.)  Are these averages due to speed limits, traffic or road conditions?  I'm guessing road conditions.

Most of the route from Morbegno to Balisio is very tight.  I have a photo of our group stopped and waiting for goats to clear the road, just south of Morbegno.  It's a nice day ride when staying in Mandello but a different kind of ride than the passes in Switzerland (Julier, Albula or Fluela), and certainly less visually spectacular.  But you'd learn where the model name Ballabio came from...

PS note that just south of San Giovanni Bianco on your route is San Pellegrino Terme, where the water is pumped out of the river, carbonated in the factory and shipped worldwide    If you head east from there on very tight roads, you eventually reach Schilpario and from there north over Passo Vivione, which is a great little pass.   

[Tom]

The speeds are for a car.