Guzzi V7 : The quest for radials

[Cadyfatcat]

TL;DR - I fitted my bike with a radial tire (Pirelli Scorpion Trail II) on rear and the stability, comfort, and handling have improved markedly.

If you decided to read on, I thought I might start by giving some context for the discussion:

A year ago a buddy and I flew down to Florida in the heart of winter to do a long weekend riding from Tampa down the Overseas Highway to Key West. Since we flew down we both rented rides in the Tampa area. Harley dealers were the only thing we could find, so we both ended up getting different flavored Sportsters for the ride. While trying out one another's bikes we agreed they had very different handling and comfort characteristics. It wasn't just the suspension or the seating/handlebar configuration, something else was at play which made one model much better handling, more stable, comfortable, and just better mannered and more confidence inspiring. Eventually we pinned the difference on the fact that one model had been fitted stock with Michelin radial tires, while the other still maintained the traditional bias-ply. The subsequent research I did seemed to indicate that radial tires are slowly but surely taking more of the market for motorcycles; most legitimate sport bikes already use them and every year more bikes in other categories begin to use them as stock rubber.

I won't go into all the reasons you want radial tires here, but if this interests you do some research. Sufficient to say that I was very compelled to get a pair of these for the V7ii Stone next time I needed new tires. That day finally came, and due to a lack of options for radials on both back and front, I actually ended up settling on a radial rear and bias front setup (which is fine, but radial on front and bias on back is not recommended).

I bought a set of Pirelli Scorpion Trail II tires in the original stock sizing of 100/90B18 (Front) and 130/80R17 (Rear). Mounted them this past weekend and got out for 100 mile ride yesterday. The difference is night and day. The stability on highway over rougher surfaces/concrete is so far improved, as is the quickness entering a corner, cornering stability and just general comfort. The Pirelli Sport Demon tires this bike came with were very decent tires, but they are bias ply. From now on when choosing tires I am certainly going to exercise a very strong bias, towards getting radials.

[drawnverybadly]

Good news! The Continental Road-attack 3 is coming in sizes that fit the V7 and are supposed to start shipping in the US 2017 Q3.

https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/continental-road-attack-3-tires

[Chuck in Indiana]

road attacks are very good news indeed. 

[TimmyTheHog]

SWEET! By the time I need to replace my stock, radial should be available!...

 

Although I don't find my stock too wobbly as some claims, any upgrade is welcome!

[rodekyll]

Avon is making a radial sidecar/trike front tire now, too.  Profile for 3-wheel riding and 130/18 available.  Spendy, but reports of 15k and better from the forums.

[redhawk47]

I want to put some 80/20 dual sport tires on my V7II Stone. The Scorpion Trails are a candidate but they are 90/10s and I really want a bit more aggressive tires. I also want to stay tubeless - Shinko 705 front is tube type.
Besides the Scorps the only pairs I have found are Kenda K761 and the OEM tires on the Stornello. For some reason I don't like the looks of the K761, and the front for the Stornello looks like a 90/10.
Two possibilities I have found that require using a rear tire on the front are Avon TrailRider and Continental TKC 70. Not sure about this option. Recommended that you mount the tire backwards.

The real reason for this post: Today I visited my dealer and learned that the Stornello rear tire is a RADIAL. So I took a closer look at the front; it seems that I could not see the forest for the trees. The trees are that it has LOTS of fine sipes. The forest is that it has deep/wide grooves in the chevrons. It is a bias ply tire. Both of them are tubeless! I think I will give them a try.

[Cadyfatcat]

@redhawk47 Yes the Scorpions definitely seem much more road oriented, although I did unintentionally run into a gravel road for a few miles on the and they performed very well.

Regarding the radial on the Stornello; glad to hear radials are making their way on to these bikes as OE, really dispels the whole "these bikes were not engineered to wear radials" argument. Which I have heard from many people including Guzzi shop owners.

Some manufacturers are going to be slower than others to move on this, but I really think in five years Radials will be the norm. They are such a game changer to how a motorcycle rides. Looks like roughly eighty percent of Honda's 2017 street oriented lineup has radials OE. That's including bikes as massive as the GoldWing and also stuff like the Africa Twin. Most of those still wearing bias are cruisers - but then again half of the Harley Sportster lineup now wears them.

[Yukonica]

I have about 3500 km on a pair of scorpion trails (bias ply) and I'm finding the front is wearing much quicker than the rear. (Air pressure set to tire spec). I'll be curious to read how the OP makes out with his.
Although I like the tire's feel I am already in the search for a replacement.
I had Conti's a long time ago and left the fold. At the time I found they let go really suddenly. I don't ride that way  any more so maybe the new tech and my reformed habits can make a go if it. Darned difficult to find tires to fit in Canada and most online shops won't ship outside of the States.

[redhawk47]

I have about 3500 km on a pair of scorpion trails (bias ply) and I'm finding the front is wearing much quicker than the rear. (Air pressure set to tire spec). I'll be curious to read how the OP makes out with his.

What do you mean by "Air pressure set to tire spec"? If you are referring to the PSI number that is molded in the sidewall you are probably running your pressure too high; no wonder that the tire has worn quickly. That pressure is how much is required to support the max weight (also molded in the sidewall). Therefor, that is only maximum PSI. You should always use what the motorcycle manufacturer recommends. Occasionally the tire manufacturer will publish recommended pressures.

Moto Guzzi V7II tire pressure settings are 36psi, front and rear, riding solo, and 38psi F&R with passenger (or full touring gear). Check your owners manual for your bike.

[Yukonica]

What do you mean by "Air pressure set to tire spec"? If you are referring to the PSI number that is molded in the sidewall you are probably running your pressure too high; no wonder that the tire has worn quickly. That pressure is how much is required to support the max weight (also molded in the sidewall). Therefor, that is only maximum PSI. You should always use what the motorcycle manufacturer recommends. Occasionally the tire manufacturer will publish recommended pressures.

Moto Guzzi V7II tire pressure settings are 36psi, front and rear, riding solo, and 38psi F&R with passenger (or full touring gear). Check your owners manual for your bike.

Thank you...!! I had no idea (obviously).
Question: this information applies to all makes and configurations of rubber?

[redhawk47]

Thank you...!! I had no idea (obviously).
Question: this information applies to all makes and configurations of rubber?

All tires, motorcycle and automobile/truck.
If you take your vehicle to one of those quick oil change places - make sure that they set tire pressure according to the placard that's is in the driver's doorjamb. My place was doing it according to the load rating value on the tire! That accelerates tire wear, and adversely affects handling, particularly in wet weather.

[Cadyfatcat]

@Yukonica I will report back the mileage I get out of the Scorpions when they need replacing, which is hopefully a while away. Even if these tires only lasted 3500 miles, if they were the only radial option, I would still buy them - the bike just rides that much better it would easily be worth it for me.

[Yukonica]

@Yukonica I will report back the mileage I get out of the Scorpions when they need replacing, which is hopefully a while away. Even if these tires only lasted 3500 miles, if they were the only radial option, I would still buy them - the bike just rides that much better it would easily be worth it for me.

So far I've liked the feel of the Scorpion Trails on every road condition and weather. I run a Special so I'm on tubes unless I spring for Borrani wheels (not very likely) and I think that means I'm out of luck for radials.
I should measure tread depth now... for the record. I'd guess I'm about half life on the front; I can expect around 8-10 k total on the local chip-sealed roads. Verdict: I'd buy them again.

[Pancake]

I have a Pirelli Sport Demon (non-raidial) at the back and a radial Metzeler at the front. The difference was very marked, much more stable in bends but it took time to adapt to how it did what it did. It 's as if once turned it just stays there with no effort.

[Arizona Wayne]

I've had the complete opposite results from you guys on radial vs. bias ply MC tires.  But I'm just interested in 2 things, tire wear and cornering feel.  I run close to top tire pressure and doing so I generally get longer tire wear because that gets less heat in the tire which = slower rubber wear.  I've had both type tires on my MuZ 660 single and the only differences I've felt is when really pushing the front tire in a corner w/a radial front I'll get a little momentary wiggle vs. no wiggle from bias ply front tire.  I've even run radial front + bias rear and hardly feel any difference in handling.  Far as I'm concerned on a MC there is no real handling difference between the 2 tire constructions.

But back in `97 I rode a brand new MG 1100 sporti w/Pirelli radial tires? and that thing wiggled constantly.  Didn't like that at all.  It wasn't my bike and I don't know what it's tire pressures were.   

Maybe on a heavier bike radials make a difference.  I don't know. 

I know a monoshock or air shocks on the rear swingarm can make for a smoother ride. 

[Muzz]

I recently had to fit a new rear tire and the only one available at short notice was the Metzeler MEz2, a steel belted radial. Although I was more than happy with the Sport Demons they always wore fairly quickly on the rear. The Metzeler is OEM for a Bonneville model. Only done about 500 miles on it and the bike is off the road for winter (yeah, I'm a blouse ) but so far very happy with the way it feels. Very planted. Also felt ok in the wet. It is actually not much more expensive than the Sport Demon either. Size was 130/80/17

Pancake, what Metzeler did you put on the front?

[Cadyfatcat]

@Arizona Wayne Bias ply tires do not dissipate heat as well as radials, accordingly they supposedly wear down faster.

As far as cornering feel I would say they could be interpreted as having less feel, but that's because there is less going on to feel in the first place. Bias ply tires follow seams in the road and get squirrelly over rough concrete or grated road surfaces on bridges and the like. In more aggressive turns they feel as though they in danger of losing traction on small imperfections or a rogue pebble. Wind blasts from trucks on the highway can sometimes make for a very hairy pass. With the larger and flatter contact patch with a radial those issues are drastically improved if not totally abated. It is true that when on radials I can no longer "feel" these things, but it's because these things are no longer happening.

Having recently been out in Phoenix I will say that the roads out there are much much better than those we have in the northeast. Accordingly the advantages of radials as mentioned above may not be as apparent. However, even on perfectly smooth asphalt road, I would still likely be confident to take a turn at a 5-10mph higher speed on the new Pirelli Scorpions as compared to the Pirelli Sport Demons my V7ii had on before, and I attribute that mostly to the radial construction in the tire.

[Cadyfatcat]

Also if there is anyone in the NY tri-state area that would like to compare bias vs radial on a V7 would be happy to meet up and let you jump on my bike for a bit for a direct comparison.

[Arizona Wayne]

Sounds to me your tire feel is more about tire tread design and tire profile series, 70 vs. 90 sidewall constructions).  What tire pressures do you run front & rear?   I run 38 front & 40 rear usually.

[Cadyfatcat]

@Arizona Wayne I run them at 34/36 psi, same as I ran the Sport Demons, and the size is exactly the same - including the aspect ratio. I don't think it is about tread pattern, the patterns really don't differ much between tires.

All the motorcycles I have owned or still own (My V7ii, BMW K75, Honda CM400, Yamaha Seca II, Guzzi Jackal) with bias ply tires have some level of the issues mentioned above. Surely some more than others, but they all exhibit it nonetheless. The three bikes I've had prolonged rides with recently on which I was aware of radial construction tires (My V7ii, Harley 1200T Superlow, Triumph Speed Triple) definitely did not have those issues.

[drawnverybadly]

Good news! Continental Road Attack 3 tires are now available in V7 sizes in the US! As soon as my Sport Demons show a bit more wear I'm planning on switching over and seeing what modern radial rubber feels like on my V7!

https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/continental-road-attack-3-tires

[nyITguy]

Good news! Continental Road Attack 3 tires are now available in V7 sizes in the US! As soon as my Sport Demons show a bit more wear I'm planning on switching over and seeing what modern radial rubber feels like on my V7!

https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/continental-road-attack-3-tires

I’ve had Road Attack 2s on my Breva 750 since August and I love them. Tried to find 3s but no one had them in stock. They hold like crazy in all conditions. Jim Hamlin installed them and thought they might be a little too stiff for a lightweight bike like the Breva but so far I really like the feel of the bike with them on, it’s a much better ride than with the Sport Demons they replaced.



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[Arizona Wayne]

@Arizona Wayne I run them at 34/36 psi, same as I ran the Sport Demons, and the size is exactly the same - including the aspect ratio. I don't think it is about tread pattern, the patterns really don't differ much between tires.

All the motorcycles I have owned or still own (My V7ii, BMW K75, Honda CM400, Yamaha Seca II, Guzzi Jackal) with bias ply tires have some level of the issues mentioned above. Surely some more than others, but they all exhibit it nonetheless. The three bikes I've had prolonged rides with recently on which I was aware of radial construction tires (My V7ii, Harley 1200T Superlow, Triumph Speed Triple) definitely did not have those issues.

Maybe because you run lower tire pressures than I do you feel more difference in your tires than I do.  Maybe you're looking for a softer ride whereas I'm looking for longer tire life and good cornering feel.  The only time I've felt any difference in bias vs. radial tire construction is when really pushing a front tire thru a corner and I get a wiggle from a radial I never get  from a bias ply tire.  Otherwise I feel no difference in tire feel so see no real advantage in radial vs. bias ply MC tires.  I'm not looking for a softer ride maybe like you and others are. If I wanted that I'd get rear air shocks, which I've had. 

[jas67]

Good news! The Continental Road-attack 3 is coming in sizes that fit the V7 and are supposed to start shipping in the US 2017 Q3.

https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/continental-road-attack-3-tires

Oh, definitely good to know!    I might have to try a pair out on my next tire change.

That said, I just mounted up a set of Avon AM26's on my V7 Racer.    $113 for the rear, and $98 for the front, about $60 cheaper than a set of the Road Attack 3's.     I'm pleased with how they handle.    I can't imagine any tire being so much better to make a difference on this bike, as I'm sure it could be ridden to its (the bike that is) limit just fine on the AM26's.

The Pilot Activs are $146 for the rear and $129 for the front (total 275 vs. $211).   So, after reading good reviews on the AM26, I decided I'd save $64 and give them a got.

So, even is they only last 3/4 the miles of the Sport Activ, it's the same value, better if they last longer.   They certainly can't be any worse than the Sport Demons.   The Sport Demons that I removed had 4200 miles on them, and were shot.   The rear was showing cords, and the front was "pointy" in profile, causing the bike to drop into turns in such a way as to make it feel like the front end was washing out and giving me a "pucker".

[Chuck in Indiana]

I'm a fan of the sport Attacks and will be putting a set on the MZ the next time out in SoCal.

[drawnverybadly]

Just found this picture of a V7 on Moto Guzzi's Trophy Endurance Race webpage, you can see the rear tire fitted to the V7 is a 150/70 R17 tire. Has anyone else managed to fit this size onto their V7 with no ill effect?

https://fastendurance.motoguzzi.com/

[redhawk47]

I suspect that you may have to deflate the 150/70R17 tire to get the wheel on or off a V7.

Meanwhile, another set of radials that fit the V7 is available: Bridgestone Battlax Adventure A41. They are 90/10s.

Dan

[kingoffleece]

I just put the Conti tires on my V7 Stone MK1.  Perfect.

[mechanicsavant]

Road attack III s are very likely the best single improvement on my V7II. Put them on last year 4K Mi. So far !

[Vagrant]

I just put the Conti tires on my V7 Stone MK1.  Perfect.

I'm on my second set on the special. last almost twice as long as stock and a big WOW on the handling.