Why is 10W60 Synthetic Specified?

[SportsterDoc]

Motoul 7100 was used for the first oil change and will be used for the second, in about a month.

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=89848.msg1420688#msg1420688

I was planning on switching to Castrol 10/60, API SN (readily available and reasonably priced) , but this discussion has convinced me to stay with Motoul.   Be good to find it for less than $63.25 for 4 liters!

Fortunately O'Reilly's has a very liberal return policy, so I can return the 6 quarts @ $7.99 each.

[Bonaventure]

I would add that anti-foaming tendency would be an important attribute since Guzzi relies heavily upon oil cooling.  One thing I noticed on the product info page for ENI/AGIP 10W60 is a specific reference to strong anti-foaming additives. 

My Ducati's always had a sight glass, which was handy not only for a quick spot check of the oil level, but after high rpm run you could pull off, stop and check the sight glass for foam.  The only oil I ever saw exhibit a rather disturbing amount of foam which appeared as the top 1/2 of the oil visible in the sight glass, was Amsoil MCT 10W40, their motorcycle specific oil supposedly JASO MA API/SL approved.    Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W40 never showed any surface foam or even surface bubbles.  Silkolene Pro 4 15W50 would show very minor surface bubbles.  Spectro Platinum 4 no foam or bubbles.

Of course, what can be seen through a one inch diameter sight glass is certainly not solid proof, but it can give hints. 

[Ncdan]

Motoul 7100 was used for the first oil change and will be used for the second, in about a month.

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=89848.msg1420688#msg1420688

I was planning on switching to Castrol 10/60, API SN (readily available and reasonably priced) , but this discussion has convinced me to stay with Motoul.   Be good to find it for less than $63.25 for 4 liters!

Fortunately O'Reilly's has a very liberal return policy, so I can return the 6 quarts @ $7.99 each.

I just placed an order last week for A four liter jug for 46.00. Google eBay and search for best prices.

[Tom]

I would add that anti-foaming tendency would be an important attribute since Guzzi relies heavily upon oil cooling.  One thing I noticed on the product info page for ENI/AGIP 10W60 is a specific reference to strong anti-foaming additives. 

My Ducati's always had a sight glass, which was handy not only for a quick spot check of the oil level, but after high rpm run you could pull off, stop and check the sight glass for foam.  The only oil I ever saw exhibit a rather disturbing amount of foam which appeared as the top 1/2 of the oil visible in the sight glass, was Amsoil MCT 10W40, their motorcycle specific oil supposedly JASO MA API/SL approved.    Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W40 never showed any surface foam or even surface bubbles.  Silkolene Pro 4 15W50 would show very minor surface bubbles.  Spectro Platinum 4 no foam or bubbles.

Of course, what can be seen through a one inch diameter sight glass is certainly not solid proof, but it can give hints.

I would be more concerned if the oil met the weight range.  Is you Duck okay with 10W40?

[Kev m]

I would be more concerned if the oil met the weight range.  Is you Duck okay with 10W40?

I think that's what most Monsters spec'd over the years so it wouldn't surprise me if most Ducs used that.

[Tom]

Then by all means whatever oil in that range that you want to use.

[Bonaventure]

10W40 was only an option for my 2013 Multistrada, was on the viscosity vs ambient temperature chart for that bike but the 2016 that replaced it (thanks to a deer collision) was spec'd for 15W50 only, they did not even have a viscosity vs ambient temp chart in the manual.  I'd tried various oils in the 2013 and the one that kept the shifting (shared sump wet clutch) smooth the longest and kept the desmo valvetrain the quietest was Spectro Platinum 4 15W50 and that was what I had in the 2016 Multi when I bagged it in February. 

[Tom]

One of the friends here had same year Multi-Strada.  Too many problems with the bike.  He turned it back into the dealer.  The last I heard is that he got another large Monster.

[Bonaventure]

One of the friends here had same year Multi-Strada.  Too many problems with the bike.  He turned it back into the dealer.  The last I heard is that he got another large Monster.

They are very complex bikes, especially electronically.  Murphy's law.  Even more so for model yr 2015 and above.  Great bikes but when I had mine the thought of what is in store for me long term like 5+ yrs down the line, would often cross my mind.  The rear shock unit alone on the electronic "skyhook" active suspension has a part cost of $2500 or so, should it fail.  Desmo valve lash adjustments and timing belt changes are not simple on them and a lot of tear down is required along with the skill to perform the valve check once it's apart and accessible. 

[Chesterfield]

If guys would worry as much about what they put in their bodies as they do what oil they put in a their put in their engines they would be a much healthier bunch. It`s kind of funny but sad also. Anyway, anybody ever seen an engine failure that can be directly related to not using the "correct" oil ?  I have seen grey paste like stuff in the bottom of Motul oil bottles, which always concerned me.

[pete roper]

If guys would worry as much about what they put in their bodies as they do what oil they put in a their put in their engines they would be a much healthier bunch. It`s kind of funny but sad also. Anyway, anybody ever seen an engine failure that can be directly related to not using the "correct" oil ?  I have seen grey paste like stuff in the bottom of Motul oil bottles, which always concerned me.

Yes.

[rodekyll]

If guys would worry as much about what they put in their bodies as they do what oil they put in a their put in their engines they would be a much healthier bunch. It`s kind of funny but sad also. Anyway, anybody ever seen an engine failure that can be directly related to not using the "correct" oil ?  I have seen grey paste like stuff in the bottom of Motul oil bottles, which always concerned me.

Ummm. . . . yes.  . . .

That gray paste is probably part of the additive package -- moly, if your spec calls for moly, since that seems to fall out of solution readily and appears as a gray paste.  The moral of the story is to shake it, shake it good, before pouring.

[Tom]

 :1:

[Arizona Wayne]

If you should shake moly good before putting it in your bike doesn't sound like it should be put in your MC in the 1st place.  Sounds like you should then shake your MC oil good before you ride it again.    I haven't added moly for decades in my Guzzi oils and have never regretted it.    I just use GL-5 oil and have yet to have a gear failure, no matter the viscosity.

[Chesterfield]

Ummm. . . . yes.  . . .

That gray paste is probably part of the additive package -- moly, if your spec calls for moly, since that seems to fall out of solution readily and appears as a gray paste.  The moral of the story is to shake it, shake it good, before pouring.

How would I shake it if it sat in the bike for 3 months of winter?

[bad Chad]

Once you start riding it, the action and heat will reconstitute.  Ever made a cake with a blender, its the same principal!

[pete roper]

How would I shake it if it sat in the bike for 3 months of winter?

Within five minutes of starting it'll be shaken well enough!

Pete

[rodekyll]

If you should shake moly good before putting it in your bike doesn't sound like it should be put in your MC in the 1st place.  Sounds like you should then shake your MC oil good before you ride it again.    I haven't added moly for decades in my Guzzi oils and have never regretted it.    I just use GL-5 oil and have yet to have a gear failure, no matter the viscosity.

Sounds ignorant.

How would I shake it if it sat in the bike for 3 months of winter?

The same way you do after any other period of time.  Run it.   

[Chesterfield]

Once you start riding it, the action and heat will reconstitute.  Ever made a cake with a blender, its the same principal!

It`s not really the same principle, A blender pulls down and blends.  Seems like a problematic oil. It seems to be the only one with this issue.  Anyway I don`t intend on using it. I think I will worry more about my diet

[Chesterfield]

Sounds ignorant.

Kind of mean spirited

[rodekyll]

Kind of mean spirited

A reasonable reply to a mocking comment.

BTW -- do you have any idea what goes on inside a guzzi engine?  Think about it.  It self-stirs.  One big challenge in the 90ºV is keeping the whipping and splashing under control.

[Arizona Wayne]

Sounds ignorant.


I've been doing this, riding Guzzis for 33 years for maybe 200K miles on 5 different ones .  How long have you been riding Guzzis, Rodekyll?

[Arizona Wayne]

A reasonable reply to a mocking comment.

BTW -- do you have any idea what goes on inside a guzzi engine?  Think about it.  It self-stirs.  One big challenge in the 90ºV is keeping the whipping and splashing under control.

Rk, you don't put moly in the motor, you put it in the rearend.  You just flunked this test.

[oldbike54]

Rk, you don't put moly in the motor, you put it in the rearend.  You just flunked this test.

 Actually most synthetic oils contain moly , Motul does for certain . So no , RK doesn't fail the test .

 Dusty

[rodekyll]

You are right that we don't add moly to the engine oil.  But I didn't say that.  I said shake the bottle before pouring.  Moly is a component of the SG (and other) additive package.  A lot of mfgrs wanted it for flat tappet engines, but as catcons became more popular, the spec, which also included zinc (which might also show as gray paste, I guess) fell out of favor.  I raised heck with the converters.  You don't add moly.  It's already there.

Next question.


Oh.  There it is.

Sounds ignorant.


I've been doing this, riding Guzzis for 33 years for maybe 200K miles on 5 different ones .  How long have you been riding Guzzis, Rodekyll?

You're a neophyte, then.  I've owned my daily driver, Rodekyll, much longer than you've been riding.  I've got 200k on it alone.  Got my first one, Rollonda, in '74.  Mt. St. Helens killed it or I'd probably still have it kicking around, too.  I liked Rollonda, except for the brakes.  But anyone can ride them.  As a certified mechanic, I've never had one in the shop.

Any more questions?

[Arizona Wayne]

SG dino oil has not been used for quite a few years now. I only use current dino oil so far in all my vehicles.   Some think that without SG oil your Guzzi motor will self destruct (I have 3) and have yet to see that happen in all my Guzzi motors.  I still run whatever car/dino oil is current and have no issues with motors suddenly dying.  Even in my Piaggio/Aprilia maxi scooters (3) I do not run synthetic oils as recommended with no regrets for many years now.  I just change the oil more often than recommended.     All my rigs have screw/nut adjustments for valve clearances so if there is an issue I will see it.

I'm not recommending you to change your beliefs.  Just letting .you know my experiences and beliefs. 

[Chesterfield]

So what should we eat for lunch tomorrow?

[rodekyll]

I like that question better.

I found some cases of jarred salmon that I brought down from Alaska.  They were with my secret recipe raspberry-blueberry-banana-tapioca jam.  The jam was for today.  Good stuff!  I'm thinking a salmon salad sandwich with an avocado/tomato salad for tomorrow. 

[ITSec]

This thread, now at six pages (at least according to my browser) reminds me of why I limit my discussion of oil issues and selection to things that have been proven either by chemistry or by actual experience. People I know, some I have met, many of whom I respect, are discussing each others standing rather than the basis for their views.

10w60 is specified because that is what the engineers had in mind when they designed the current and recent (i.e., 2006 and later) MG engines. They selected it because the oil chosen gave a combination of properties in terms of heat transfer, degredation resistance, and other characteristics that made it easier to achieve other goals for their engine designs. We may question their choices or whether they adequately considered all the environments in which their designs might be used, but the basic fact is that the designs specs are what they are. We might elect to diverge from their intentions and expectations, but we should accept that when we do so we are on our own as far as results are concerned.

I appreciate the expertise and research others have gained and share here. I know that some feel their own experience may go beyond what the engineers in Mandello del Lario may have anticipated. But please, gentlemen and ladies (for indeed there are some well informed ones), let's keep it constructive. I'd love to keep learning from you all, but it's easier when the critique is focused on the evidence and experience.

I know I ride my 2008 Norge in ways and under conditions the designers did not expect as ordinary. It gets about 25,000 miles a year or more under conditions more stressful than any Italian would see short of living in Libya. It does rather well with 10w60 in whatever flavor (flavour, for the upside-down or Euro types) is available. I haven't yet seen any reason to be fussier than the published specs, and the current 126,000 miles would seem to provide empirical evidence that any gains, though real, would be meaningful to most riders who average somewhat fewer miles per year.

I am planning on buying a couple more CARC bikes in the coming year, new or used - but I fully expect my somewhat pragmatic approach to be equally successful with my new machines. I'll be so unhappy if they only make a quarter million miles each before needing a rebuild.... 

[beetle]

Why the drama? It's just a discussion.

Which is turning into a "I know more than you" thread. That's why.